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A B737 pilot describes the confusion caused by a 'runway 4R approach' sign at a point where he expected a 'runway 4R' runway hold short line.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 734971 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200704 |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lit.airport |
| State Reference | AR |
| Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737-300 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | ground : taxi |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 217 flight time type : 9000 |
| ASRS Report | 734971 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Airport |
| Primary Problem | Airport |
| Situations | |
| Airport | signage : lit.airport |
Narrative:
Taxi out to runway 4R on taxiway right; I noticed as I turned the corner of runway 4R; that the only hold short sign said runway 4R approach. There is no sign that says runway 4R. According to our fom; we are not to hold short of an approach hold short line unless directed to by ATC. This is the same problem that I wrote about in abq last summer. Either we change our fom to always hold short of an approach hold short line; or we change the signs. Change the sign to read runway 4R adjacent to the hold short line. There is no other taxiway or confusion about an approach hold short.callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter stated that his air carrier operations manual specifically states that they are not to hold short of a runway at any point other than the runway hold line. The sign in place is not a runway hold line but an approach hold line. There are runway boundary lines painted at that point but no signage. The reporter stated that pit runway 10C and abq runway 21 have the same confusing signage.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B737 PLT DESCRIBES THE CONFUSION CAUSED BY A 'RWY 4R APCH' SIGN AT A POINT WHERE HE EXPECTED A 'RWY 4R' RWY HOLD SHORT LINE.
Narrative: TAXI OUT TO RWY 4R ON TXWY R; I NOTICED AS I TURNED THE CORNER OF RWY 4R; THAT THE ONLY HOLD SHORT SIGN SAID RWY 4R APCH. THERE IS NO SIGN THAT SAYS RWY 4R. ACCORDING TO OUR FOM; WE ARE NOT TO HOLD SHORT OF AN APCH HOLD SHORT LINE UNLESS DIRECTED TO BY ATC. THIS IS THE SAME PROB THAT I WROTE ABOUT IN ABQ LAST SUMMER. EITHER WE CHANGE OUR FOM TO ALWAYS HOLD SHORT OF AN APCH HOLD SHORT LINE; OR WE CHANGE THE SIGNS. CHANGE THE SIGN TO READ RWY 4R ADJACENT TO THE HOLD SHORT LINE. THERE IS NO OTHER TXWY OR CONFUSION ABOUT AN APCH HOLD SHORT.CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATED THAT HIS ACR OPS MANUAL SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT THEY ARE NOT TO HOLD SHORT OF A RWY AT ANY POINT OTHER THAN THE RWY HOLD LINE. THE SIGN IN PLACE IS NOT A RWY HOLD LINE BUT AN APCH HOLD LINE. THERE ARE RWY BOUNDARY LINES PAINTED AT THAT POINT BUT NO SIGNAGE. THE RPTR STATED THAT PIT RWY 10C AND ABQ RWY 21 HAVE THE SAME CONFUSING SIGNAGE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.