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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 742504 |
Time | |
Date | 200706 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 10000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | A319 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Route In Use | arrival star : seavu |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 742504 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 742503 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance Chart Or Publication |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
The captain and I did not notice note 1 on the seavu one arrival. No runway was specified by ATC and we were mistakenly expecting runway 24R even though none was given by the controller. We were descending via the seavu one arrival into lax and were about 2 miles west of skoll intersection when we were handed off to a second socal approach controller. On initial contact with him; the controller asked if we were turning back to the left to join the runway 25L localizer. The captain stated that we were setting up for runway 24R. The controller cleared us for runway 24R and later stated that runway 25L is the default runway if none is specified. It was after that I noticed note number 1 on the chart stating this fact. I was not previously aware of that fact. Upon reflection; the captain and I were both expecting runway 24R; runway 24R was written in the landing data card; and having gone to runway 24R 95% of the time; I set up runway 24R in the flight plan page. I did have runway 25L as a backup in the secondary because I know how often runway changes occur going into lax. ATC queried us on our navigation path. We were cleared for ILS runway 24R and continued in. Having an lax arrival procedure that differs from all the others that I've ever flown is confusing. The 'default' runway is not a concept that I had seen before and had never experienced previously on arrivals into lax. I believe aircraft should be told what runway to expect; as soon as possible; so that there is not any confusion. This practice is used in other situations; such as stating the runway when assigning takeoff or 'taxi into position and hold' clearances. The runway is stated and read back so that there is no ambiguity. I believe that this would reduce errors of this nature.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A319 FLT CREW REPORTS MISSING NOTE 1 ON THE SEAVU 1 ARRIVAL INTO LAX AND PROCEEDING TO NAVIGATE TO RWY 24R AFTER A SPECIFIC RWY IS NOT MENTIONED DURING THE ARRIVAL.
Narrative: THE CAPTAIN AND I DID NOT NOTICE NOTE 1 ON THE SEAVU ONE ARRIVAL. NO RWY WAS SPECIFIED BY ATC AND WE WERE MISTAKENLY EXPECTING RWY 24R EVEN THOUGH NONE WAS GIVEN BY THE CONTROLLER. WE WERE DESCENDING VIA THE SEAVU ONE ARRIVAL INTO LAX AND WERE ABOUT 2 MILES WEST OF SKOLL INTERSECTION WHEN WE WERE HANDED OFF TO A SECOND SOCAL APPROACH CONTROLLER. ON INITIAL CONTACT WITH HIM; THE CONTROLLER ASKED IF WE WERE TURNING BACK TO THE LEFT TO JOIN THE RWY 25L LOCALIZER. THE CAPTAIN STATED THAT WE WERE SETTING UP FOR RWY 24R. THE CONTROLLER CLEARED US FOR RWY 24R AND LATER STATED THAT RWY 25L IS THE DEFAULT RWY IF NONE IS SPECIFIED. IT WAS AFTER THAT I NOTICED NOTE NUMBER 1 ON THE CHART STATING THIS FACT. I WAS NOT PREVIOUSLY AWARE OF THAT FACT. UPON REFLECTION; THE CAPTAIN AND I WERE BOTH EXPECTING RWY 24R; RWY 24R WAS WRITTEN IN THE LANDING DATA CARD; AND HAVING GONE TO RWY 24R 95% OF THE TIME; I SET UP RWY 24R IN THE FLIGHT PLAN PAGE. I DID HAVE RWY 25L AS A BACKUP IN THE SECONDARY BECAUSE I KNOW HOW OFTEN RUNWAY CHANGES OCCUR GOING INTO LAX. ATC QUERIED US ON OUR NAVIGATION PATH. WE WERE CLEARED FOR ILS RWY 24R AND CONTINUED IN. HAVING AN LAX ARRIVAL PROCEDURE THAT DIFFERS FROM ALL THE OTHERS THAT I'VE EVER FLOWN IS CONFUSING. THE 'DEFAULT' RWY IS NOT A CONCEPT THAT I HAD SEEN BEFORE AND HAD NEVER EXPERIENCED PREVIOUSLY ON ARRIVALS INTO LAX. I BELIEVE AIRCRAFT SHOULD BE TOLD WHAT RWY TO EXPECT; AS SOON AS POSSIBLE; SO THAT THERE IS NOT ANY CONFUSION. THIS PRACTICE IS USED IN OTHER SITUATIONS; SUCH AS STATING THE RWY WHEN ASSIGNING TAKEOFF OR 'TAXI INTO POSITION AND HOLD' CLEARANCES. THE RWY IS STATED AND READ BACK SO THAT THERE IS NO AMBIGUITY. I BELIEVE THAT THIS WOULD REDUCE ERRORS OF THIS NATURE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.