37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 772997 |
Time | |
Date | 200802 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : cvg.airport |
State Reference | OH |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Marginal |
Weather Elements | Ice |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | EMB ERJ 135 ER&LR |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : preflight |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time type : 4000 |
ASRS Report | 772997 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure non adherence : company policies |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action |
Consequence | other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Weather Environmental Factor Company |
Primary Problem | Company |
Narrative:
I called dispatch to let them know that SIGMET for 'occasional severe rime/mixed 'icgicip' between 060 and 140. Reported by aircraft nr dxo conditions moving newd and continuing byd XA35Z' would affect my flight from cvg. I told them I would not be able to go until the SIGMET was canceled or reduced to moderate or light icing. Dispatch tried to persuade me to go and I told them no. Dispatch said they would have to take another look at this and would call me back. After more calls; they told me that this was just more of a PIREP. I said that may have been the case at one point; but it triggered a SIGMET that now encompassed my route of flight. The dispatcher told me they would look at it again and I told him again that I was not going until the SIGMET was canceled or changed. I also mentioned that I heard there was someone from the FAA on the ramp and I could not imagine how I could justify to him that I was going to fly into an area with reported severe icing. The dispatcher seemed to be going back and forth to someone else in the office to get his instructions; but it was unclr who. The next call I got was from the chief pilot. He asked me if I was afraid to fly with someone from the FAA there. I told him the same thing I told the dispatcher. He told me that sigmets are advisory. I told him that sigmets are how we get our en route WX and not just an advisory. He said they would have to call me back. The dispatcher called me again and said the new plan was for me to fly above the SIGMET and when I descended if I got into severe icing to turn around and go back to cvg. I told him that their plan still put me in the area of severe icing and then asked if he would like for me to find the FAA and put him on the phone. He said that would not be necessary and I agreed as long as they would stop pushing me to take the flight. The next call I got was from the chief pilot and he said I was right and we should just wait it out. The next call was from the dispatcher saying the same thing. During this event I felt pushed from not only dispatch; but the chief pilot to do the wrong thing. My fear is that a new captain may not be able to hold their ground against an effort like this one. In the future; additional training for dispatchers to recognize severe icing or situations where they are unable to dispatch would be helpful. Simplified (plain english) sigmets/NOTAMS on the release would also be good for all parties.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN EMB135 PILOT REFUSED TO FLY INTO AN AREA OF SEVERE ICING. AN ACR CHIEF PILOT AND DISPATCHER ATTEMPTED TO PRESSURE HIM TO FLY INTO AFFECTED REGION.
Narrative: I CALLED DISPATCH TO LET THEM KNOW THAT SIGMET FOR 'OCCASIONAL SEVERE RIME/MIXED 'ICGICIP' BTWN 060 AND 140. RPTED BY ACFT NR DXO CONDITIONS MOVING NEWD AND CONTINUING BYD XA35Z' WOULD AFFECT MY FLT FROM CVG. I TOLD THEM I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO GO UNTIL THE SIGMET WAS CANCELED OR REDUCED TO MODERATE OR LIGHT ICING. DISPATCH TRIED TO PERSUADE ME TO GO AND I TOLD THEM NO. DISPATCH SAID THEY WOULD HAVE TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THIS AND WOULD CALL ME BACK. AFTER MORE CALLS; THEY TOLD ME THAT THIS WAS JUST MORE OF A PIREP. I SAID THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THE CASE AT ONE POINT; BUT IT TRIGGERED A SIGMET THAT NOW ENCOMPASSED MY RTE OF FLT. THE DISPATCHER TOLD ME THEY WOULD LOOK AT IT AGAIN AND I TOLD HIM AGAIN THAT I WAS NOT GOING UNTIL THE SIGMET WAS CANCELED OR CHANGED. I ALSO MENTIONED THAT I HEARD THERE WAS SOMEONE FROM THE FAA ON THE RAMP AND I COULD NOT IMAGINE HOW I COULD JUSTIFY TO HIM THAT I WAS GOING TO FLY INTO AN AREA WITH RPTED SEVERE ICING. THE DISPATCHER SEEMED TO BE GOING BACK AND FORTH TO SOMEONE ELSE IN THE OFFICE TO GET HIS INSTRUCTIONS; BUT IT WAS UNCLR WHO. THE NEXT CALL I GOT WAS FROM THE CHIEF PLT. HE ASKED ME IF I WAS AFRAID TO FLY WITH SOMEONE FROM THE FAA THERE. I TOLD HIM THE SAME THING I TOLD THE DISPATCHER. HE TOLD ME THAT SIGMETS ARE ADVISORY. I TOLD HIM THAT SIGMETS ARE HOW WE GET OUR ENRTE WX AND NOT JUST AN ADVISORY. HE SAID THEY WOULD HAVE TO CALL ME BACK. THE DISPATCHER CALLED ME AGAIN AND SAID THE NEW PLAN WAS FOR ME TO FLY ABOVE THE SIGMET AND WHEN I DSNDED IF I GOT INTO SEVERE ICING TO TURN AROUND AND GO BACK TO CVG. I TOLD HIM THAT THEIR PLAN STILL PUT ME IN THE AREA OF SEVERE ICING AND THEN ASKED IF HE WOULD LIKE FOR ME TO FIND THE FAA AND PUT HIM ON THE PHONE. HE SAID THAT WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY AND I AGREED AS LONG AS THEY WOULD STOP PUSHING ME TO TAKE THE FLT. THE NEXT CALL I GOT WAS FROM THE CHIEF PLT AND HE SAID I WAS RIGHT AND WE SHOULD JUST WAIT IT OUT. THE NEXT CALL WAS FROM THE DISPATCHER SAYING THE SAME THING. DURING THIS EVENT I FELT PUSHED FROM NOT ONLY DISPATCH; BUT THE CHIEF PLT TO DO THE WRONG THING. MY FEAR IS THAT A NEW CAPT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO HOLD THEIR GND AGAINST AN EFFORT LIKE THIS ONE. IN THE FUTURE; ADDITIONAL TRAINING FOR DISPATCHERS TO RECOGNIZE SEVERE ICING OR SITUATIONS WHERE THEY ARE UNABLE TO DISPATCH WOULD BE HELPFUL. SIMPLIFIED (PLAIN ENGLISH) SIGMETS/NOTAMS ON THE RELEASE WOULD ALSO BE GOOD FOR ALL PARTIES.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.