37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 803012 |
Time | |
Date | 200808 |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | navaid : vcn.vortac |
State Reference | NJ |
Altitude | msl single value : 7000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : phl.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-300 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : vacating altitude |
Route In Use | arrival other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 225 flight time type : 225 |
ASRS Report | 803012 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : radar controller : approach |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne critical |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took evasive action |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Airspace Structure Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
I am filing this report to bring attention to the close proximity of the parachuting activities near the phl runway 27 approach and how the jump planes often maneuver abruptly; even though it is broadcast on the ATIS and sometimes the position is included (10 mi north of vcn). We checked in with philly approach control and were assigned after vcn direct to the marker for runway 27R (almost too good to be true). When we were north of vcn and ATC called out traffic and told us to turn 10 degrees right of course. Soon after; the controller issued another 10 degrees to the right. We were already descending to an altitude of 6000 ft. We saw the traffic on the TCAS and soon after visually acquired the traffic. He was in a slow descent. The traffic was at approximately 11 O'clock position and moving left to right. I called out the traffic to the first officer and he confirmed that he had the traffic also. Once the traffic was at approximately our 1 O'clock position; he started a slow left turn. I told the first officer to start a turn to the left and to increase our rate of descent. The traffic tightened up his turn and I again had the first officer increase our rate of descent and also our turn rate. It was almost as if it appeared the traffic was trying to turn and descend into us. We received a descend RA of about 3000 FPM which the first officer complied with. About the time the descent rate was established; I lost sight of the traffic and the RA went to about a 3000 FPM climb. I told the first officer to just pull it right up which he did rather abruptly which was the way I wanted it done. I may have even helped on the control yoke. This was done because we now did not have the traffic in sight and the last turn we saw him make was a tight turn right towards us. We were now at about 8000 ft and high for the approach when we received the clear of conflict. We called the field in sight and cleared the visual. We were still able to get the airplane configured in plenty of time to be stabilized. Numerous passenger wanted to know about the abrupt maneuver and the aircraft that passed below us. It was explained to them what had happened. I wish I would have had more time to explain it to them on the PA; however; we were busy preparing for our now high approach to runway 27R. At no time do I believe we had a 'near midair;' but the way the aircraft was flying; it did seem like he was coming after us. Also; the crew that we were giving the airplane to had arrived about an hour before us had a similar experience from talking to the first officer of the accepting crew. He had said that at the same position they had received a TA and saw the airplane as if it was turning towards them. I am not sure how to get the word out on the location and how abruptly these jump airplanes maneuver; but it should be done. Better awareness of the parachute operations and how abruptly they maneuver. Other aircraft abruptly maneuvering.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737 FLT CREW DESCENDING INTO PHL REPORTS CONFLICT WITH JUMP PLANE 10 NM NORTH OF VCN.
Narrative: I AM FILING THIS RPT TO BRING ATTN TO THE CLOSE PROX OF THE PARACHUTING ACTIVITIES NEAR THE PHL RWY 27 APCH AND HOW THE JUMP PLANES OFTEN MANEUVER ABRUPTLY; EVEN THOUGH IT IS BROADCAST ON THE ATIS AND SOMETIMES THE POS IS INCLUDED (10 MI N OF VCN). WE CHKED IN WITH PHILLY APCH CTL AND WERE ASSIGNED AFTER VCN DIRECT TO THE MARKER FOR RWY 27R (ALMOST TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE). WHEN WE WERE N OF VCN AND ATC CALLED OUT TFC AND TOLD US TO TURN 10 DEGS R OF COURSE. SOON AFTER; THE CTLR ISSUED ANOTHER 10 DEGS TO THE R. WE WERE ALREADY DSNDING TO AN ALT OF 6000 FT. WE SAW THE TFC ON THE TCAS AND SOON AFTER VISUALLY ACQUIRED THE TFC. HE WAS IN A SLOW DSCNT. THE TFC WAS AT APPROX 11 O'CLOCK POS AND MOVING L TO R. I CALLED OUT THE TFC TO THE FO AND HE CONFIRMED THAT HE HAD THE TFC ALSO. ONCE THE TFC WAS AT APPROX OUR 1 O'CLOCK POS; HE STARTED A SLOW L TURN. I TOLD THE FO TO START A TURN TO THE L AND TO INCREASE OUR RATE OF DSCNT. THE TFC TIGHTENED UP HIS TURN AND I AGAIN HAD THE FO INCREASE OUR RATE OF DSCNT AND ALSO OUR TURN RATE. IT WAS ALMOST AS IF IT APPEARED THE TFC WAS TRYING TO TURN AND DSND INTO US. WE RECEIVED A DSND RA OF ABOUT 3000 FPM WHICH THE FO COMPLIED WITH. ABOUT THE TIME THE DSCNT RATE WAS ESTABLISHED; I LOST SIGHT OF THE TFC AND THE RA WENT TO ABOUT A 3000 FPM CLB. I TOLD THE FO TO JUST PULL IT RIGHT UP WHICH HE DID RATHER ABRUPTLY WHICH WAS THE WAY I WANTED IT DONE. I MAY HAVE EVEN HELPED ON THE CTL YOKE. THIS WAS DONE BECAUSE WE NOW DID NOT HAVE THE TFC IN SIGHT AND THE LAST TURN WE SAW HIM MAKE WAS A TIGHT TURN RIGHT TOWARDS US. WE WERE NOW AT ABOUT 8000 FT AND HIGH FOR THE APCH WHEN WE RECEIVED THE CLR OF CONFLICT. WE CALLED THE FIELD IN SIGHT AND CLRED THE VISUAL. WE WERE STILL ABLE TO GET THE AIRPLANE CONFIGURED IN PLENTY OF TIME TO BE STABILIZED. NUMEROUS PAX WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT THE ABRUPT MANEUVER AND THE ACFT THAT PASSED BELOW US. IT WAS EXPLAINED TO THEM WHAT HAD HAPPENED. I WISH I WOULD HAVE HAD MORE TIME TO EXPLAIN IT TO THEM ON THE PA; HOWEVER; WE WERE BUSY PREPARING FOR OUR NOW HIGH APCH TO RWY 27R. AT NO TIME DO I BELIEVE WE HAD A 'NEAR MIDAIR;' BUT THE WAY THE ACFT WAS FLYING; IT DID SEEM LIKE HE WAS COMING AFTER US. ALSO; THE CREW THAT WE WERE GIVING THE AIRPLANE TO HAD ARRIVED ABOUT AN HR BEFORE US HAD A SIMILAR EXPERIENCE FROM TALKING TO THE FO OF THE ACCEPTING CREW. HE HAD SAID THAT AT THE SAME POS THEY HAD RECEIVED A TA AND SAW THE AIRPLANE AS IF IT WAS TURNING TOWARDS THEM. I AM NOT SURE HOW TO GET THE WORD OUT ON THE LOCATION AND HOW ABRUPTLY THESE JUMP AIRPLANES MANEUVER; BUT IT SHOULD BE DONE. BETTER AWARENESS OF THE PARACHUTE OPS AND HOW ABRUPTLY THEY MANEUVER. OTHER ACFT ABRUPTLY MANEUVERING.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.