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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 80313 |
Time | |
Date | 198801 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : pvd |
State Reference | RI |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 10300 msl bound upper : 11000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zbw |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | controller military : 3 controller radar : 3 flight time last 90 days : 230 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 11 |
ASRS Report | 80313 |
Person 2 | |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Were given a clearance to cross 11 mi northeast of pvd VOR at 10000' MSL. I did not understand the clearance and asked the copilot to confirm with the center, which he did. I dialed in 10000' on the altitude reminder. Either just before or just after we switched to approach control, I heard some other flight receive a clearance to, 'cross 10 mi northeast of pvd at 11000'.' I asked the copilot to again confirm our clearance to 10000'. He did and the controller then stated that our altitude was 11000'. At this time I was descending through 10500'. Des was stopped at approximately 10300' and climb was made back to 11000' MSL. No other traffic was observed and no further comment was made by or to ATC. After thoroughly discussing the incident within the cockpit, I am not certain whether the mistake was made by us or by the issuing controller, or if a mistake was made at all. Commentary: I have on previous flts through this area had ATC assign my flight, '10 northeast of pvd at 11000,' and a few seconds later give another flight, '11 northeast of pvd at 10000,' with the same results. My comment to the controller at that time, that his phraseology was very confusing and easy to misunderstand, was met with sarcasm. I strongly urge the following phraseology: 1) '11 northeast of pvd at 11000' or '10 northeast of pvd at 10000' and never, never, never mix the 2 together. There are more than one of these setups in the northeast and are just waiting for the right set of circumstances to occur and this incident will become an accident if they are not corrected.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ALT CROSSING RESTRICTION GIVEN RESULTING IN MISINTERPRETING MAINTAIN ALT, CROSS 11 DME NE AT 10000.
Narrative: WERE GIVEN A CLRNC TO CROSS 11 MI NE OF PVD VOR AT 10000' MSL. I DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE CLRNC AND ASKED THE COPLT TO CONFIRM WITH THE CENTER, WHICH HE DID. I DIALED IN 10000' ON THE ALT REMINDER. EITHER JUST BEFORE OR JUST AFTER WE SWITCHED TO APCH CTL, I HEARD SOME OTHER FLT RECEIVE A CLRNC TO, 'CROSS 10 MI NE OF PVD AT 11000'.' I ASKED THE COPLT TO AGAIN CONFIRM OUR CLRNC TO 10000'. HE DID AND THE CTLR THEN STATED THAT OUR ALT WAS 11000'. AT THIS TIME I WAS DSNDING THROUGH 10500'. DES WAS STOPPED AT APPROX 10300' AND CLB WAS MADE BACK TO 11000' MSL. NO OTHER TFC WAS OBSERVED AND NO FURTHER COMMENT WAS MADE BY OR TO ATC. AFTER THOROUGHLY DISCUSSING THE INCIDENT WITHIN THE COCKPIT, I AM NOT CERTAIN WHETHER THE MISTAKE WAS MADE BY US OR BY THE ISSUING CTLR, OR IF A MISTAKE WAS MADE AT ALL. COMMENTARY: I HAVE ON PREVIOUS FLTS THROUGH THIS AREA HAD ATC ASSIGN MY FLT, '10 NE OF PVD AT 11000,' AND A FEW SECS LATER GIVE ANOTHER FLT, '11 NE OF PVD AT 10000,' WITH THE SAME RESULTS. MY COMMENT TO THE CTLR AT THAT TIME, THAT HIS PHRASEOLOGY WAS VERY CONFUSING AND EASY TO MISUNDERSTAND, WAS MET WITH SARCASM. I STRONGLY URGE THE FOLLOWING PHRASEOLOGY: 1) '11 NE OF PVD AT 11000' OR '10 NE OF PVD AT 10000' AND NEVER, NEVER, NEVER MIX THE 2 TOGETHER. THERE ARE MORE THAN ONE OF THESE SETUPS IN THE NE AND ARE JUST WAITING FOR THE RIGHT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES TO OCCUR AND THIS INCIDENT WILL BECOME AN ACCIDENT IF THEY ARE NOT CORRECTED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.