 |
37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Large transport given a climb to higher altitude with time limitation for execution. Controller had to turn large transport to miss military aircraft prior to vertical separation being attained.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 80463 |
| Time | |
| Date | 198801 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : zun |
| State Reference | NM |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 40600 msl bound upper : 41000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zab |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | other |
| Make Model Name | Military Transport |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 165 flight time total : 12470 flight time type : 1274 |
| ASRS Report | 80463 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
| Experience | controller military : 5 controller radar : 10 flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 4000 |
| ASRS Report | 80543 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation |
| Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified |
| Resolutory Action | other |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Miss Distance | vertical : 1600 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
After experiencing light turbulence almost constantly from departure from san diego and waiting until the gross weight was sufficiently low enough to permit a climb to FL410 and still remain in the envelope, a request for FL410 was made to abq ARTCC at XA15. Clearance was granted at about XA17, after we were asked if we could make FL410 in 4 mins. We replied that we could make it to FL410 in 4 mins. After clearance was received, the new altitude (FL410) was dialed into the autoplt/flight director mode control panel on the glareshield and then entered on the crs page of the flight management computer (FMC) and then executed, at which time the climb was started. At about XA21, abq ARTCC asked if we could still make FL410 in 4 mins. We replied, 'yes,' for we were at FL405 and climbing. A few seconds later, at FL406, the air traffic controller said, 'turn left heading 340 degrees for sep.' we were still rolling into the turn and passing 030 degrees and FL407 when the controller said, 'clrd dir mienz,' (which is where we had been clrd to originally). At no time did we hear abq ARTCC talking to bmb y--who he said we had a conflict with. About 2 mins after this occurred, the controller told us to call abq ARTCC quality assurance at (phone number) for a 'possible loss of sep incident.' I called upon arrival in msp. According to our clocks on the aircraft, we made FL410 in the 4 mins that we had put on us. Also, when does the clock start--when the controller keys the microphone? When he/she releases the microphone key? When the clearance is acknowledged? When the climb is started? (I timed how long it took the aircraft to actually start a climb after a clearance was received and all of the dialing in was done, and it took 22 seconds.) also, if there was any question in the controller's mind about sep, why didn't he say 'higher later after passing crossing traffic,' (which as I stated earlier we had not heard him talking to or issuing traffic information to). Supplemental information from acn 80543: according to our clocks, even with the turn to 340 degrees, we met the assigned fl in less than 4 mins.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LGT GIVEN A CLIMB TO HIGHER ALT WITH TIME LIMITATION FOR EXECUTION. CTLR HAD TO TURN LGT TO MISS MIL ACFT PRIOR TO VERTICAL SEPARATION BEING ATTAINED.
Narrative: AFTER EXPERIENCING LIGHT TURBULENCE ALMOST CONSTANTLY FROM DEP FROM SAN DIEGO AND WAITING UNTIL THE GROSS WT WAS SUFFICIENTLY LOW ENOUGH TO PERMIT A CLB TO FL410 AND STILL REMAIN IN THE ENVELOPE, A REQUEST FOR FL410 WAS MADE TO ABQ ARTCC AT XA15. CLRNC WAS GRANTED AT ABOUT XA17, AFTER WE WERE ASKED IF WE COULD MAKE FL410 IN 4 MINS. WE REPLIED THAT WE COULD MAKE IT TO FL410 IN 4 MINS. AFTER CLRNC WAS RECEIVED, THE NEW ALT (FL410) WAS DIALED INTO THE AUTOPLT/FLT DIRECTOR MODE CTL PANEL ON THE GLARESHIELD AND THEN ENTERED ON THE CRS PAGE OF THE FLT MGMNT COMPUTER (FMC) AND THEN EXECUTED, AT WHICH TIME THE CLB WAS STARTED. AT ABOUT XA21, ABQ ARTCC ASKED IF WE COULD STILL MAKE FL410 IN 4 MINS. WE REPLIED, 'YES,' FOR WE WERE AT FL405 AND CLBING. A FEW SECONDS LATER, AT FL406, THE AIR TFC CTLR SAID, 'TURN LEFT HDG 340 DEGS FOR SEP.' WE WERE STILL ROLLING INTO THE TURN AND PASSING 030 DEGS AND FL407 WHEN THE CTLR SAID, 'CLRD DIR MIENZ,' (WHICH IS WHERE WE HAD BEEN CLRD TO ORIGINALLY). AT NO TIME DID WE HEAR ABQ ARTCC TALKING TO BMB Y--WHO HE SAID WE HAD A CONFLICT WITH. ABOUT 2 MINS AFTER THIS OCCURRED, THE CTLR TOLD US TO CALL ABQ ARTCC QUALITY ASSURANCE AT (PHONE NUMBER) FOR A 'POSSIBLE LOSS OF SEP INCIDENT.' I CALLED UPON ARR IN MSP. ACCORDING TO OUR CLOCKS ON THE ACFT, WE MADE FL410 IN THE 4 MINS THAT WE HAD PUT ON US. ALSO, WHEN DOES THE CLOCK START--WHEN THE CTLR KEYS THE MIC? WHEN HE/SHE RELEASES THE MIC KEY? WHEN THE CLRNC IS ACKNOWLEDGED? WHEN THE CLB IS STARTED? (I TIMED HOW LONG IT TOOK THE ACFT TO ACTUALLY START A CLB AFTER A CLRNC WAS RECEIVED AND ALL OF THE DIALING IN WAS DONE, AND IT TOOK 22 SECS.) ALSO, IF THERE WAS ANY QUESTION IN THE CTLR'S MIND ABOUT SEP, WHY DIDN'T HE SAY 'HIGHER LATER AFTER PASSING XING TFC,' (WHICH AS I STATED EARLIER WE HAD NOT HEARD HIM TALKING TO OR ISSUING TFC INFO TO). SUPPLEMENTAL INFORMATION FROM ACN 80543: ACCORDING TO OUR CLOCKS, EVEN WITH THE TURN TO 340 DEGS, WE MET THE ASSIGNED FL IN LESS THAN 4 MINS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.