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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 810558 |
Time | |
Date | 200811 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dal.airport |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : d10.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport Low Wing 2 Turbojet Eng |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing : go around |
Route In Use | approach : visual arrival : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time type : 1020 |
ASRS Report | 810558 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 188 |
ASRS Report | 810560 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : company policies other anomaly |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : executed go around |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Navigational Facility ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
We were being vectored for a visual to runway 13R dal. The runway 13R ILS was OTS. Both pilots fly through dal infrequently and we did not see the field until late on approach. We were at the end of the base leg when we reported the field in sight and were cleared for the visual to runway 13R. We could see that we were too high; so we executed a missed approach. ATC had us maintain 2000 ft and turned us into left traffic for runway 13L. While in the pattern for the left; ATC said; 'keep it in tight; don't go past lbj freeway.' then he mentioned traffic near the addison airport; which was another reason to keep it tight. We had a very high cockpit workload and we were unfamiliar with the lbj freeway; so we did our best to fly a fairly tight pattern. I turned base and began descending. At this point I did not have the field in sight and stated this to the captain. I also said; 'if you want to take it; go ahead; I still don't have it.' (I was on the wrong side of the aircraft to see the runway.) we xferred control and she flew on base leg until I stated that I had it in sight. She then gave me back control of the aircraft and I began turning final and was still slightly high. My sink rate was approximately 1200-1300 FPM below 1000 ft AGL. I corrected to a normal sink rate. My speed was within limits. We landed uneventfully on runway 13L. Sometimes pilots are too anxious to be accommodating to ATC. We tend to have a 'can-do attitude' and we don't want to make others work harder; so we end up working too hard and increasing our threat level. I think we should have asked ATC for perhaps a 4 or 5 mi final rather than trying to 'keep it in tight.' phraseology such as that is subjective and ATC doesn't know what we need for distance on final in order to be stabilized. I should have been more proactive with that aspect of the approach. Both pilots were somewhat unfamiliar with local landmarks that ATC used. For example lbj freeway. Supplemental information from acn 810560: held high and lack of airport environment knowledge for runway 13R (with the ILS still OTS) we started a go around. Midfield; a left turn for a tight 2000 ft AGL approach to ILS runway 13L. We then had traffic for the right and also inbound for runway 13L. We were told to stay within some freeway lbg or lgb (I still do not know). We both are very unfamiliar and should have asked to be extended or vectored for more time to set up for a stabilized approach. We got a sink rate warning with the plane in the landing confign. It is hard for people not flying into dal to know all the local points of interest. One of us could have at least had runway 13L ILS approach tuned in. We needed more time or spacing to come back around to land on the other runway. It was also hard for the first officer to see the runway from the left side; so I should have asked for more spacing to set up or been better at guiding back to the new runway. Unstabilized approach.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AIR CARRIER FLIGHT CREW REPORTS UNSTABILIZED APPROACH LEADING TO GO AROUND AND SECOND UNSTABILIZED APPROACH TO LANDING.
Narrative: WE WERE BEING VECTORED FOR A VISUAL TO RWY 13R DAL. THE RWY 13R ILS WAS OTS. BOTH PLTS FLY THROUGH DAL INFREQUENTLY AND WE DID NOT SEE THE FIELD UNTIL LATE ON APCH. WE WERE AT THE END OF THE BASE LEG WHEN WE RPTED THE FIELD IN SIGHT AND WERE CLRED FOR THE VISUAL TO RWY 13R. WE COULD SEE THAT WE WERE TOO HIGH; SO WE EXECUTED A MISSED APCH. ATC HAD US MAINTAIN 2000 FT AND TURNED US INTO L TFC FOR RWY 13L. WHILE IN THE PATTERN FOR THE L; ATC SAID; 'KEEP IT IN TIGHT; DON'T GO PAST LBJ FREEWAY.' THEN HE MENTIONED TFC NEAR THE ADDISON ARPT; WHICH WAS ANOTHER REASON TO KEEP IT TIGHT. WE HAD A VERY HIGH COCKPIT WORKLOAD AND WE WERE UNFAMILIAR WITH THE LBJ FREEWAY; SO WE DID OUR BEST TO FLY A FAIRLY TIGHT PATTERN. I TURNED BASE AND BEGAN DSNDING. AT THIS POINT I DID NOT HAVE THE FIELD IN SIGHT AND STATED THIS TO THE CAPT. I ALSO SAID; 'IF YOU WANT TO TAKE IT; GO AHEAD; I STILL DON'T HAVE IT.' (I WAS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ACFT TO SEE THE RWY.) WE XFERRED CTL AND SHE FLEW ON BASE LEG UNTIL I STATED THAT I HAD IT IN SIGHT. SHE THEN GAVE ME BACK CTL OF THE ACFT AND I BEGAN TURNING FINAL AND WAS STILL SLIGHTLY HIGH. MY SINK RATE WAS APPROX 1200-1300 FPM BELOW 1000 FT AGL. I CORRECTED TO A NORMAL SINK RATE. MY SPD WAS WITHIN LIMITS. WE LANDED UNEVENTFULLY ON RWY 13L. SOMETIMES PLTS ARE TOO ANXIOUS TO BE ACCOMMODATING TO ATC. WE TEND TO HAVE A 'CAN-DO ATTITUDE' AND WE DON'T WANT TO MAKE OTHERS WORK HARDER; SO WE END UP WORKING TOO HARD AND INCREASING OUR THREAT LEVEL. I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE ASKED ATC FOR PERHAPS A 4 OR 5 MI FINAL RATHER THAN TRYING TO 'KEEP IT IN TIGHT.' PHRASEOLOGY SUCH AS THAT IS SUBJECTIVE AND ATC DOESN'T KNOW WHAT WE NEED FOR DISTANCE ON FINAL IN ORDER TO BE STABILIZED. I SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE PROACTIVE WITH THAT ASPECT OF THE APCH. BOTH PLTS WERE SOMEWHAT UNFAMILIAR WITH LCL LANDMARKS THAT ATC USED. FOR EXAMPLE LBJ FREEWAY. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 810560: HELD HIGH AND LACK OF ARPT ENVIRONMENT KNOWLEDGE FOR RWY 13R (WITH THE ILS STILL OTS) WE STARTED A GAR. MIDFIELD; A L TURN FOR A TIGHT 2000 FT AGL APCH TO ILS RWY 13L. WE THEN HAD TFC FOR THE R AND ALSO INBOUND FOR RWY 13L. WE WERE TOLD TO STAY WITHIN SOME FREEWAY LBG OR LGB (I STILL DO NOT KNOW). WE BOTH ARE VERY UNFAMILIAR AND SHOULD HAVE ASKED TO BE EXTENDED OR VECTORED FOR MORE TIME TO SET UP FOR A STABILIZED APCH. WE GOT A SINK RATE WARNING WITH THE PLANE IN THE LNDG CONFIGN. IT IS HARD FOR PEOPLE NOT FLYING INTO DAL TO KNOW ALL THE LCL POINTS OF INTEREST. ONE OF US COULD HAVE AT LEAST HAD RWY 13L ILS APCH TUNED IN. WE NEEDED MORE TIME OR SPACING TO COME BACK AROUND TO LAND ON THE OTHER RWY. IT WAS ALSO HARD FOR THE FO TO SEE THE RWY FROM THE L SIDE; SO I SHOULD HAVE ASKED FOR MORE SPACING TO SET UP OR BEEN BETTER AT GUIDING BACK TO THE NEW RWY. UNSTABILIZED APCH.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.