Narrative:

I have a safety concern that crews are not able to access information if a runway is grooved at an international destination to determine if the runway; if contaminated; would be considered a 'wet runway' for dispatch or actual landing and evaluated as such prior to an approach to that runway. I have previously submitted an operational report which is attached below with the fleet response. I would like to know if this can be explored further; since I feel flight crews are still at risk and the information crews need to evaluate runway conditions and landing distances; as required by SOP; to determine if a runway is grooved at a destination is not being made available to crews or in some cases dispatch as well. The operational report answer below indicates that the commercial chart company controls the information; such as grooved runway; but in my dispatcher briefings; dispatch has also indicated that they do not have information as to type of runway surface at international destinations as well. I feel that having access to the information as to whether a runway is grooved or not; is critical in operational planning and landing performance. Would the FAA or NTSB offer a 'pass' to a crew involved in a runway overrun just because the crew could not obtain grooved runway information; probably not; if the crew is responsible for knowing that as part of their evaluation; it needs to be provided; preferably in the same location as domestic charts; on the back of the airport page; as appropriate; and in the same language grooved or blank. We have had wide body accidents due to overruns on non-grooved contaminated runways. An 8;000 ft runway landing distance margin; while legal as a dry runway; may become illegal as a 'wet runway' if any water is standing on a non-grooved runway with the wet runway penalties applied. Is there another direction this can be sent if the fleet cannot provide the information to the crew? Question: on many of our international charts the type of runway surface; grooved or not grooved; is not identified on the back of the airport page. Specifically; pek; lhr; and ams come to mind; where the type of runway surface is not in the location where most pilots would look for it on the back of the airport diagram. In the case of lhr it does appear on one of the airport pages; but I was not able to locate the information from the pek pages. Also; ams identifies the surface differently than our standard identification so that it is not readily apparent if it is porous friction overlay or grooved. Have I missed where this information is located; or is it possible to have the type of runway surface easily identified to close a trap that the crew and/or dispatcher may fall into? Answer: unfortunately; air carrier does not control the content of airport pages. The commercial chart company creates these pages and controls content from 2 different offices. They are sometimes not consistent. In addition; the commercial chart company must cull the information out of the various national aip products; which themselves are not consistent. Thus; the commercial chart company is confronted with a somewhat difficult task in creating the various charts we use in our daily operation. We forward line comments to the commercial chart company for consideration for improving their products; and will certainly do so in this case. We will suggest that the commercial chart company establish a consistent chart location that describes runway surface type and friction qualities; even if mentioned in the airport pages. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter states that his air carrier is in discussions with the chart maker involved and that changes will be initiated so that runway grooving information is provided on international charts.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B777 Captain wonders why international airports don't have runway grooving information on the back of the airport diagram as is common for domestic airports.

Narrative: I have a safety concern that crews are not able to access information if a runway is grooved at an international destination to determine if the runway; if contaminated; would be considered a 'wet runway' for dispatch or actual landing and evaluated as such prior to an approach to that runway. I have previously submitted an Operational Report which is attached below with the fleet response. I would like to know if this can be explored further; since I feel flight crews are still at risk and the information crews need to evaluate runway conditions and landing distances; as required by SOP; to determine if a runway is grooved at a destination is not being made available to crews or in some cases Dispatch as well. The Operational Report answer below indicates that the commercial chart company controls the information; such as grooved runway; but in my Dispatcher briefings; Dispatch has also indicated that they do not have information as to type of runway surface at international destinations as well. I feel that having access to the information as to whether a runway is grooved or not; is critical in operational planning and landing performance. Would the FAA or NTSB offer a 'pass' to a crew involved in a runway overrun just because the crew could not obtain grooved runway information; probably not; if the crew is responsible for knowing that as part of their evaluation; it needs to be provided; preferably in the same location as domestic charts; on the back of the airport page; as appropriate; and in the same language grooved or blank. We have had wide body accidents due to overruns on non-grooved contaminated runways. An 8;000 FT runway landing distance margin; while legal as a dry runway; may become illegal as a 'wet runway' if any water is standing on a non-grooved runway with the wet runway penalties applied. Is there another direction this can be sent if the fleet cannot provide the information to the crew? Question: On many of our international charts the type of runway surface; grooved or not grooved; is not identified on the back of the airport page. Specifically; PEK; LHR; and AMS come to mind; where the type of runway surface is not in the location where most Pilots would look for it on the back of the airport diagram. In the case of LHR it does appear on one of the airport pages; but I was not able to locate the information from the PEK pages. Also; AMS identifies the surface differently than our standard ID so that it is not readily apparent if it is porous friction overlay or grooved. Have I missed where this information is located; or is it possible to have the type of runway surface easily identified to close a trap that the crew and/or Dispatcher may fall into? Answer: Unfortunately; air carrier does not control the content of airport pages. The commercial chart company creates these pages and controls content from 2 different offices. They are sometimes not consistent. In addition; the commercial chart company must cull the information out of the various national AIP products; which themselves are not consistent. Thus; the commercial chart company is confronted with a somewhat difficult task in creating the various charts we use in our daily operation. We forward line comments to the commercial chart company for consideration for improving their products; and will certainly do so in this case. We will suggest that the commercial chart company establish a consistent chart location that describes runway surface type and friction qualities; even if mentioned in the airport pages. Callback conversation with Reporter revealed the following information: The reporter states that his air carrier is in discussions with the chart maker involved and that changes will be initiated so that runway grooving information is provided on international charts.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.