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Attributes | |
ACN | 82881 |
Time | |
Date | 198802 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : avx |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 1600 msl bound upper : 2600 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : pit |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | Small Aircraft, Low Wing, 1 Eng, Retractable Gear |
Flight Phase | landing other other |
Flight Plan | VFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | Small Aircraft, High Wing, 1 Eng, Retractable Gear |
Flight Phase | landing other other |
Flight Plan | VFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot instruction : instructor |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 125 flight time total : 500 flight time type : 45 |
ASRS Report | 82881 |
Person 2 | |
Function | instruction : trainee |
Qualification | pilot : student |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe conflict : ground less severe non adherence : far other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action none taken : insufficient time |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 500 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
Airport | other physical facility procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
We entered the traffic pattern with a 45 degree entry to a right downwind for runway 22. The pattern was busy with about 5 or 6 planes in front of us. Once established on downwind a small aircraft Y reported midfield and entering a right downwind. He actually cut in front of us while entering from the wrong side of the airport. My student widened his pattern out to the left to give the small aircraft Y some room. I didn't mention anything on the radio as the frequency was so busy. I don't think the small aircraft Y ever saw us, and if he did, then he purposely cut in front of us. The catalina unicom 'cleared' the small aircraft Y when he called midfield, to land west/O giving him a sequence. I think they also told him to enter right downwind too. The small aircraft Y was at pattern altitude when he reported midfield (he was actually past the runway and converging with us when he reported midfield). If we did not see the small aircraft Y it would have been pretty close, within 300' laterally easy. The small aircraft Y flew an extended downwind (3 mi). I had my student gradually slow down to give the small aircraft Y some room. We were at 70 KIAS with full flaps on a two mi final. The small aircraft Y must have slowed down early also. As the small aircraft Y was on 1/2 mi final, catalina unicom 'cleared' another small single engine plane to taxi into position. The unicom did not let the plane go until the small aircraft Y was on what looked like a less than 1/4 mi final due to other departing or arriving traffic. I was sweating this a little. In the meantime more planes were arriving in the pattern. The small aircraft Y then landed behind the plane which was cleared for takeoff just in time. I'd estimate a spacing of 1000' between the two when the small aircraft Y touched down. The small aircraft Y touched down well within the first third of the runway (3200' runway) and was rolling out while we were on short final. We caught a little windshear while crossing the threshold and added some power to compensate. Just after this I noticed the small aircraft Y at a low speed approaching a taxiway (the last one before the end of the runway). I made a judgement that we had plenty of room and that the small aircraft Y would turn off on that taxiway. My student then leveled off too high and we were approaching stalling speed. I came in with some power and helped him get the plane down. After touching down I noticed the small aircraft Y proceeding to the end of the runway at a very slow speed and applied moderate braking for a short time. When I saw that we could make the taxiway that I had assumed the small aircraft Y would make, I discontinued braking. The taxiway was over 1000' from the end of the runway. The small aircraft Y was reaching the end of the runway and turning off about the same time we turned off. The unicom called the small aircraft Y and in an excited voice told him to clear the runway immediately. I told the small aircraft Y that there was no danger from us just after the unicom's message. The only thing I thought about this whole thing was that the small aircraft Y pilot needed some recurrent training and the unicom operators, who exercise almost the same control as tower controllers, had trouble handling all the traffic that day. One of the guys from the 'tower' came racing up to us in a van after we shut down, and requested the pilot's license, name and address of aircraft owner, etc. He told me that we landed too close behind the small aircraft Y and a short argument ensued. I had assumed the small aircraft Y would do something that he didn't (turn off on the taxiway), became distracted, landed and then saw the small aircraft Y down the runway in front of us, I immediately tried the brakes and would have done a go around if they failed. I had my student make what I considered adequate spacing (though he was slow to comply) and we had enough room for safety, though we did not have too much excess room in the event of an emergency. I think the unicom was overworked, and should not give 'clrncs,' only advisories, the small aircraft Y pilot was slow and we could have left a little more space.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SMA X CAME IN CLOSE PROX WITH SMA Y IN TRAFFIC PATTERN AND AFTER LNDG AT AVX. SMA X PLT QUESTIONS ISSUANCES OF CLRNCS BY AVX UNICOM.
Narrative: WE ENTERED THE TFC PATTERN WITH A 45 DEG ENTRY TO A R DOWNWIND FOR RWY 22. THE PATTERN WAS BUSY WITH ABOUT 5 OR 6 PLANES IN FRONT OF US. ONCE ESTABLISHED ON DOWNWIND A SMA Y RPTED MIDFIELD AND ENTERING A R DOWNWIND. HE ACTUALLY CUT IN FRONT OF US WHILE ENTERING FROM THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ARPT. MY STUDENT WIDENED HIS PATTERN OUT TO THE L TO GIVE THE SMA Y SOME ROOM. I DIDN'T MENTION ANYTHING ON THE RADIO AS THE FREQ WAS SO BUSY. I DON'T THINK THE SMA Y EVER SAW US, AND IF HE DID, THEN HE PURPOSELY CUT IN FRONT OF US. THE CATALINA UNICOM 'CLRED' THE SMA Y WHEN HE CALLED MIDFIELD, TO LAND W/O GIVING HIM A SEQUENCE. I THINK THEY ALSO TOLD HIM TO ENTER R DOWNWIND TOO. THE SMA Y WAS AT PATTERN ALT WHEN HE RPTED MIDFIELD (HE WAS ACTUALLY PAST THE RWY AND CONVERGING WITH US WHEN HE RPTED MIDFIELD). IF WE DID NOT SEE THE SMA Y IT WOULD HAVE BEEN PRETTY CLOSE, WITHIN 300' LATERALLY EASY. THE SMA Y FLEW AN EXTENDED DOWNWIND (3 MI). I HAD MY STUDENT GRADUALLY SLOW DOWN TO GIVE THE SMA Y SOME ROOM. WE WERE AT 70 KIAS WITH FULL FLAPS ON A TWO MI FINAL. THE SMA Y MUST HAVE SLOWED DOWN EARLY ALSO. AS THE SMA Y WAS ON 1/2 MI FINAL, CATALINA UNICOM 'CLRED' ANOTHER SMALL SINGLE ENG PLANE TO TAXI INTO POS. THE UNICOM DID NOT LET THE PLANE GO UNTIL THE SMA Y WAS ON WHAT LOOKED LIKE A LESS THAN 1/4 MI FINAL DUE TO OTHER DEPARTING OR ARRIVING TFC. I WAS SWEATING THIS A LITTLE. IN THE MEANTIME MORE PLANES WERE ARRIVING IN THE PATTERN. THE SMA Y THEN LANDED BEHIND THE PLANE WHICH WAS CLRED FOR TKOF JUST IN TIME. I'D ESTIMATE A SPACING OF 1000' BTWN THE TWO WHEN THE SMA Y TOUCHED DOWN. THE SMA Y TOUCHED DOWN WELL WITHIN THE FIRST THIRD OF THE RWY (3200' RWY) AND WAS ROLLING OUT WHILE WE WERE ON SHORT FINAL. WE CAUGHT A LITTLE WINDSHEAR WHILE XING THE THRESHOLD AND ADDED SOME PWR TO COMPENSATE. JUST AFTER THIS I NOTICED THE SMA Y AT A LOW SPD APCHING A TXWY (THE LAST ONE BEFORE THE END OF THE RWY). I MADE A JUDGEMENT THAT WE HAD PLENTY OF ROOM AND THAT THE SMA Y WOULD TURN OFF ON THAT TXWY. MY STUDENT THEN LEVELED OFF TOO HIGH AND WE WERE APCHING STALLING SPD. I CAME IN WITH SOME PWR AND HELPED HIM GET THE PLANE DOWN. AFTER TOUCHING DOWN I NOTICED THE SMA Y PROCEEDING TO THE END OF THE RWY AT A VERY SLOW SPD AND APPLIED MODERATE BRAKING FOR A SHORT TIME. WHEN I SAW THAT WE COULD MAKE THE TXWY THAT I HAD ASSUMED THE SMA Y WOULD MAKE, I DISCONTINUED BRAKING. THE TXWY WAS OVER 1000' FROM THE END OF THE RWY. THE SMA Y WAS REACHING THE END OF THE RWY AND TURNING OFF ABOUT THE SAME TIME WE TURNED OFF. THE UNICOM CALLED THE SMA Y AND IN AN EXCITED VOICE TOLD HIM TO CLR THE RWY IMMEDIATELY. I TOLD THE SMA Y THAT THERE WAS NO DANGER FROM US JUST AFTER THE UNICOM'S MESSAGE. THE ONLY THING I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS WHOLE THING WAS THAT THE SMA Y PLT NEEDED SOME RECURRENT TRAINING AND THE UNICOM OPERATORS, WHO EXERCISE ALMOST THE SAME CONTROL AS TWR CTLRS, HAD TROUBLE HANDLING ALL THE TFC THAT DAY. ONE OF THE GUYS FROM THE 'TWR' CAME RACING UP TO US IN A VAN AFTER WE SHUT DOWN, AND REQUESTED THE PLT'S LICENSE, NAME AND ADDRESS OF ACFT OWNER, ETC. HE TOLD ME THAT WE LANDED TOO CLOSE BEHIND THE SMA Y AND A SHORT ARGUMENT ENSUED. I HAD ASSUMED THE SMA Y WOULD DO SOMETHING THAT HE DIDN'T (TURN OFF ON THE TXWY), BECAME DISTRACTED, LANDED AND THEN SAW THE SMA Y DOWN THE RWY IN FRONT OF US, I IMMEDIATELY TRIED THE BRAKES AND WOULD HAVE DONE A GO AROUND IF THEY FAILED. I HAD MY STUDENT MAKE WHAT I CONSIDERED ADEQUATE SPACING (THOUGH HE WAS SLOW TO COMPLY) AND WE HAD ENOUGH ROOM FOR SAFETY, THOUGH WE DID NOT HAVE TOO MUCH EXCESS ROOM IN THE EVENT OF AN EMER. I THINK THE UNICOM WAS OVERWORKED, AND SHOULD NOT GIVE 'CLRNCS,' ONLY ADVISORIES, THE SMA Y PLT WAS SLOW AND WE COULD HAVE LEFT A LITTLE MORE SPACE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.