Air carrier inbound to pbi described late descent event; alleging ATC is frequently late in issuing ...

Narrative:

This is a routine problem when coming south into florida. We were at FL240 about 50 miles north of pbi; expecting the ILS runway 9L; which is what was on the ATIS (it did change to visual 13 during our descent). We requested lower and were told to standby. The first officer had about 100 hours in type; and was flying well and planned ahead. Mia center then gave us direct to a fix we could not locate. When we asked they said it was on the runway 13 final approach. They gave us a crossing restriction 35 north at 10;000 ft. I told the first office to start down while I looked for it. I couldn't find the fix and the controller told us it was on the GPS 13 final. We are not GPS equipped which he would have known if he had looked at our designation. We were handed off to approach and given a clearance to (I believe) 3000 ft. We were now very high and fast because they started us down so late (250 KTS; slats and flaps 11) and we saw the runway at 10 o'clock and advised. We re-briefed the usual with a VOR backup. We were given 1500 ft and turned on to the airport; it was obvious that we couldn't get down and I told approach we needed a right 270 degree turn (to lose altitude and speed); they said unable and go use vectors back to the north. They seemed very annoyed so I told them they can't start us down so late and give us a runway clearance at the last minute and expect us to get down. Runway 13 is only 6900 ft long and the last thing I wanted was to be high and fast to a short runway with no ILS at night with a new guy flying. I have a lot of time in type and I don't think I could have made it work; certainly a new pilot couldn't. This was unsafe controlling as far as I'm concerned; and it was a setup for a runway over-run. I feel we did well but the controller could do better.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: Air carrier inbound to PBI described late descent event; alleging ATC is frequently late in issuing descent clearances making stabilized approach procedures very difficult.

Narrative: This is a routine problem when coming south into Florida. We were at FL240 about 50 miles north of PBI; expecting the ILS Runway 9L; which is what was on the ATIS (it did change to visual 13 during our descent). We requested lower and were told to standby. The First Officer had about 100 hours in type; and was flying well and planned ahead. MIA Center then gave us direct to a fix we could not locate. When we asked they said it was on the Runway 13 final approach. They gave us a crossing restriction 35 north at 10;000 FT. I told the First Office to start down while I looked for it. I couldn't find the fix and the Controller told us it was on the GPS 13 final. We are not GPS equipped which he would have known if he had looked at our designation. We were handed off to approach and given a clearance to (I believe) 3000 FT. We were now very high and fast because they started us down so late (250 KTS; slats and Flaps 11) and we saw the runway at 10 o'clock and advised. We re-briefed the usual with a VOR backup. We were given 1500 FT and turned on to the airport; it was obvious that we couldn't get down and I told approach we needed a right 270 degree turn (to lose altitude and speed); they said unable and go use vectors back to the north. They seemed very annoyed so I told them they can't start us down so late and give us a runway clearance at the last minute and expect us to get down. Runway 13 is only 6900 FT long and the last thing I wanted was to be high and fast to a short runway with no ILS at night with a new guy flying. I have a lot of time in type and I don't think I could have made it work; certainly a new pilot couldn't. This was unsafe controlling as far as I'm concerned; and it was a setup for a runway over-run. I feel we did well but the Controller could do better.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Attributes
ACN	839438
Time
Date	200906
Local Time Of Day	1801-2400
Place
Locale Reference	PBI.Airport
State Reference	FL
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Night
Aircraft 1
Make Model Name	MD-88
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	Initial Approach
Route In Use	Vectors Visual Approach
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Function	Pilot Not Flying Captain
Qualification	Flight Crew Flight Engineer Flight Crew Flight Instructor Flight Crew Instrument Flight Crew Multiengine Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP)
Experience	Flight Crew Last 90 Days 100 Flight Crew Total 12000 Flight Crew Type 6000
Events
Anomaly	ATC Issue All Types

Air carrier inbound to pbi described late descent event; alleging ATC is frequently late in issuing descent clearances making stabilized approach procedures very difficult.