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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 839616 |
Time | |
Date | 200906 |
Local Time Of Day | 0601-1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | N90.TRACON |
State Reference | NY |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Route In Use | STAR MILTON |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Captain Pilot Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Events | |
Anomaly | Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy Deviation - Track / Heading All Types Inflight Event / Encounter Weather / Turbulence |
Narrative:
Enroute to lga; we were filed on the milton arrival. Before even starting the arrival we were told to hold at the miget intersection due to weather on the mip arrival into lga. We held for a long time and then eventually given a reroute to avoid all the weather. The reroute was from our position; direct psb; direct rav; direct fjc- direct lga. At this point; we are not cleared on a published arrival. As we were flying the new route; there was bad weather between rav and fjc. We asked for a deviation to the right for weather on the route. Ny center gave it to us and said direct fjc when able. There was a lot of weather over fjc and it wasn't going to be possible. We told the controller; and he said ok; go direct lizzi instead; which is an intersection just to the east. Up until this point our last clearance was direct fjc direct lga. The way the controller made it sound was just go direct to lizzi instead of fjc. There was no further clearance given after lizzi. We inputted this intersection as a replacement for fjc; then direct lga as we were cleared before. Also; we were never cleared back on any arrival. After this we were switched from ny center to ny approach. As we got to lizzi we turned toward the lga VOR. Soon the approach controller asked us where we were going and we told him what we had been cleared for. He told us to go direct harlm and back onto the rest of the mip 3 arrival; and continued normally the rest of the way into lga. Ny center; and even more so ny approach; has a way of giving short unusual clearances; and assuming that you know what they mean. A good example of this is when they tell you to fly direct to the verrazano bridge and then up the hudson. We are on IFR flight plans and have very little visual charts to work off of. No visual approach chart for lga shows the bridge. You just have to know what it is. If you don't you can ask; but they don't ask you before they clear you direct to it. In my case I am assuming when the controller cleared me direct to lizzi that meant go direct to lizzi and fly the rest of the MIP3 arrival; but that wasn't said and at no time did I receive a new clearance back onto the mip 3 until we started going the wrong way. A better course of action for me in the future would be to inquire with ATC as to what he expected us to do after lizzi; which would have avoided all of this. At the same time however; it is ATC's responsibility to issue the clearances correctly and for me to fly what they clear me for correctly. The only other possibility is that the center controller way back; who first gave us the new routing; did it incorrectly and should have given us the mip arrival after fjc instead of direct lga.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: Air carrier inbound to LGA; given ATC approval for weather deviations; experienced confusion reference routing after receiving vague instructions from air traffic listing examples of unclear N90 ATC clearances.
Narrative: Enroute to LGA; we were filed on the Milton Arrival. Before even starting the arrival we were told to hold at the MIGET intersection due to weather on the MIP arrival into LGA. We held for a long time and then eventually given a reroute to avoid all the weather. The reroute was from our position; direct PSB; direct RAV; direct FJC- direct LGA. At this point; we are not cleared on a published arrival. As we were flying the new route; there was bad weather between RAV and FJC. We asked for a deviation to the right for weather on the route. NY Center gave it to us and said direct FJC when able. There was a lot of weather over FJC and it wasn't going to be possible. We told the Controller; and he said OK; go direct LIZZI instead; which is an intersection just to the east. Up until this point our last clearance was Direct FJC Direct LGA. The way the Controller made it sound was just go direct to LIZZI instead of FJC. There was no further clearance given after LIZZI. We inputted this intersection as a replacement for FJC; then direct LGA as we were cleared before. Also; we were never cleared back on any arrival. After this we were switched from NY Center to NY Approach. As we got to LIZZI we turned toward the LGA VOR. Soon the Approach Controller asked us where we were going and we told him what we had been cleared for. He told us to go direct HARLM and back onto the rest of the MIP 3 Arrival; and continued normally the rest of the way into LGA. NY Center; and even more so NY Approach; has a way of giving short unusual clearances; and assuming that you know what they mean. A good example of this is when they tell you to fly direct to the Verrazano Bridge and then up the Hudson. We are on IFR flight plans and have very little visual charts to work off of. No visual approach chart for LGA shows the Bridge. You just have to know what it is. If you don't you can ask; but they don't ask you before they clear you direct to it. In my case I am assuming when the controller cleared me direct to LIZZI that meant go direct to LIZZI and fly the rest of the MIP3 Arrival; but that wasn't said and at no time did I receive a new clearance back onto the MIP 3 until we started going the wrong way. A better course of action for me in the future would be to inquire with ATC as to what he expected us to do after LIZZI; which would have avoided all of this. At the same time however; it is ATC's responsibility to issue the clearances correctly and for me to fly what they clear me for correctly. The only other possibility is that the center controller way back; who first gave us the new routing; did it incorrectly and should have given us the MIP arrival after FJC instead of direct LGA.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.