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Medium large transport failed to adhere to amended altitude and had less than standard separation with previously issued small transport traffic.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 85624 |
| Time | |
| Date | 198804 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : fat |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 4000 msl bound upper : 4250 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : fat |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude descent other |
| Route In Use | departure other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Small Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 12000 |
| ASRS Report | 85624 |
| Person 2 | |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : clearance non adherence : required legal separation |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 15000 vertical : 750 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Flight fat to rno was given clearance to climb to maintain 10000' by clearance delivery. Upon departure and in a left turn passing 3600', departure control modified clearance to maintain 4000', traffic at 5000', 3 mi at 4 O'clock (an small transport). Our rate of climb at time of clearance to maintain 4000' was 6000 FPM in an medium large transport X. It was physically impossible and unsafe to level off that fast west/O possibly physically hurting passenger and F/a's. As best my first officer could, he leveled out 4250' maximum and immediate descent back to cleared altitude of 4000'. Rate of climb was too excessive to safely stop out rate of climb to level off that fast. Upon reflection on incident, it appears that with inherent discrepancies of ATC radars to keep up with rates of climb and dscnts on scope readouts, especially when rates of climb are excessive (ie, medium large transport X with very light weights), that our altitude at time of clearance and departure scope may have been only 3000' (apparently capable of leveling off in 1000'). Not so--we were already at 4600'. We discussed this over the radio with departure control explaining our rate of climb problem and leveling off.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MLG FAILED TO ADHERE TO AMENDED ALT AND HAD LESS THAN STANDARD SEPARATION WITH PREVIOUSLY ISSUED SMT TRAFFIC.
Narrative: FLT FAT TO RNO WAS GIVEN CLRNC TO CLB TO MAINTAIN 10000' BY CLRNC DELIVERY. UPON DEP AND IN A LEFT TURN PASSING 3600', DEP CTL MODIFIED CLRNC TO MAINTAIN 4000', TFC AT 5000', 3 MI AT 4 O'CLOCK (AN SMT). OUR RATE OF CLB AT TIME OF CLRNC TO MAINTAIN 4000' WAS 6000 FPM IN AN MLG X. IT WAS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE AND UNSAFE TO LEVEL OFF THAT FAST W/O POSSIBLY PHYSICALLY HURTING PAX AND F/A'S. AS BEST MY F/O COULD, HE LEVELED OUT 4250' MAX AND IMMEDIATE DSCNT BACK TO CLRED ALT OF 4000'. RATE OF CLB WAS TOO EXCESSIVE TO SAFELY STOP OUT RATE OF CLB TO LEVEL OFF THAT FAST. UPON REFLECTION ON INCIDENT, IT APPEARS THAT WITH INHERENT DISCREPANCIES OF ATC RADARS TO KEEP UP WITH RATES OF CLB AND DSCNTS ON SCOPE READOUTS, ESPECIALLY WHEN RATES OF CLB ARE EXCESSIVE (IE, MLG X WITH VERY LIGHT WTS), THAT OUR ALT AT TIME OF CLRNC AND DEP SCOPE MAY HAVE BEEN ONLY 3000' (APPARENTLY CAPABLE OF LEVELING OFF IN 1000'). NOT SO--WE WERE ALREADY AT 4600'. WE DISCUSSED THIS OVER THE RADIO WITH DEP CTL EXPLAINING OUR RATE OF CLB PROB AND LEVELING OFF.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.