37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 858367 |
Time | |
Date | 200910 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801-2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | DTW.Airport |
State Reference | MI |
Environment | |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | SF 340B |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Climb |
Route In Use | SID Palace 3 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Climb |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Pilot Flying Captain |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 11 Flight Crew Total 2550 Flight Crew Type 1500 |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Conflict Airborne Conflict Deviation - Procedural Clearance Deviation - Speed All Types |
Narrative:
On climbout detroit departure inquired as to what maximum airspeed we would be able to maintain when level at 11;000 feet due to a flight behind us. We were assigned 180 KIAS in the climb. We responded that we could maintain 220 KIAS. Departure then instructed us to maintain 220 KIAS once level and the company flight in trail to maintain 220 KIAS or less at 11;000. Shortly after this instruction we were handed off to cleveland center and upon checking in were given a climb to 16;000; passing through 13;000 cleveland frantically asked us if we were given a speed restriction and instructed the flight in trail to slow immediately as they were apparently within 5 miles of us and overtaking us. We responded by stating we were given a cruise speed clearance and that we were unable to climb at 220 KIAS. After a few exchanges and a 'verification' from detroit about our clearance; the other flight was cleared direct to a fix on their route and we were given normal speed and direct to a fix on ours. After reviewing the events with my first officer and the crew of the other flight it could only be explained as very poor phraseology and instruction by ATC. When we were given the instruction of 220 KIAS at 11;000 feet this was to maintain separation in cruise flight. I do understand that in the uncertainty of the situation it was my responsibility to verify our speed restriction for a climb; but I do believe cleveland center has an explicit knowledge of aircraft flying through a sector 100% of the year and the expectation of a saab 340 B+ to climb at 220 KIAS from 11;000 to 16;000 is unrealistic and irrational. The previous instruction of 180 KIAS in the climb seemed to be the most conservative guidance to follow.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A breakdown in communications regarding assigned airspeeds between an SF340 flight crew and ATC resulted in a modest separation issue with an aircraft in trail during climbout.
Narrative: On climbout Detroit departure inquired as to what maximum airspeed we would be able to maintain when level at 11;000 feet due to a flight behind us. We were assigned 180 KIAS in the climb. We responded that we could maintain 220 KIAS. Departure then instructed us to maintain 220 KIAS once level and the company flight in trail to maintain 220 KIAS or less at 11;000. Shortly after this instruction we were handed off to Cleveland Center and upon checking in were given a climb to 16;000; passing through 13;000 Cleveland frantically asked us if we were given a speed restriction and instructed the flight in trail to slow immediately as they were apparently within 5 miles of us and overtaking us. We responded by stating we were given a cruise speed clearance and that we were unable to climb at 220 KIAS. After a few exchanges and a 'verification' from Detroit about our clearance; the other flight was cleared direct to a fix on their route and we were given normal speed and direct to a fix on ours. After reviewing the events with my First Officer and the crew of the other flight it could only be explained as very poor phraseology and instruction by ATC. When we were given the instruction of 220 KIAS at 11;000 feet this was to maintain separation in cruise flight. I do understand that in the uncertainty of the situation it was my responsibility to verify our speed restriction for a climb; but I do believe Cleveland Center has an explicit knowledge of aircraft flying through a sector 100% of the year and the expectation of a Saab 340 B+ to climb at 220 KIAS from 11;000 to 16;000 is unrealistic and irrational. The previous instruction of 180 KIAS in the climb seemed to be the most conservative guidance to follow.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.