A reporter commented that the tailored arrival into lax contained waypoints with altitude constraint...

Narrative:

/Catalina 1 TA /at ficky cleared route clearance destination:klax approach:ILS25L.sli arrival:25L rosin malit goatz sxc n3325w11808 n3331w11803 n3335w11800 dixnn sli /maintain FL380 this was the tailored approach as printed. There were no altitudes; except FL380. ATC cleared us to descend via the catalina 1 TA. Since there were no altitudes listed; we asked if they wanted us to cross goatz at 12;000 ft as we usually do. The CDU legs page showed us crossing goatz at FL250. ATC said that we should cross goatz at 12;000 ft. We started our descent and made the restriction. We were discussing the fact that there was no way we could have known the 12;000 ft crossing would be required by reading the TA; and felt the higher altitude would make sense; since the purpose of a TA is to make a constant rate of descent at idle power to save fuel. When level at 12;000 ft; we were switched to sct and were again cleared to descend via the catalina 1 TA; and cross sli at 7000 ft. We had started down to make the 7000 ft sli crossing; when ATC asked why were leaving 12;000 ft and told us to stop descent and level at 11;000 ft. I told them there were no crossing restrictions noted on the TA. ATC told us to cross waypoint number one at 11;000 ft and then continue descent to cross sli at 7000 ft. I told her we did not have waypoint numbers; only lat/longs; and read her the first one to see if they corresponded. She said the lat/longs were not displayed on her strip. She then just cleared us to descend and cross sli at 7000 ft at sli; we were taken off the TA and given a heading for spacing. The landing and taxi-in were normal. I would suggest no more TA acceptances at lax until there are moves taken to make sure both the ACARS and ATC strip printouts are identical. They should both be in lat/longs with a number following it in parentheses for easy reference/readback if needed. There should also be any altitude crossings printed for cockpit use; if ATC is expecting them. If there is not an immediate end to the mismatch of information; there will be no advantage to requesting the TA and a potential for confusion and increased radio communication time to sort out the details; not mention cockpit confusion as to ATC expectations.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A reporter commented that the tailored arrival into LAX contained waypoints with altitude constraints which ATC had expected but which were neither on the clearance nor defined for the flight crew as to be expected.

Narrative: /CATALINA 1 TA /AT FICKY CLEARED ROUTE CLEARANCE DEST:KLAX APPROACH:ILS25L.SLI ARRIVAL:25L ROSIN MALIT GOATZ SXC N3325W11808 N3331W11803 N3335W11800 DIXNN SLI /MAINTAIN FL380 This was the Tailored Approach as printed. There were no altitudes; except FL380. ATC cleared us to descend via the Catalina 1 TA. Since there were no altitudes listed; we asked if they wanted us to cross GOATZ at 12;000 FT as we usually do. The CDU legs page showed us crossing GOATZ at FL250. ATC said that we should cross GOATZ at 12;000 FT. We started our descent and made the restriction. We were discussing the fact that there was no way we could have known the 12;000 FT crossing would be required by reading the TA; and felt the higher altitude would make sense; since the purpose of a TA is to make a constant rate of descent at idle power to save fuel. When level at 12;000 FT; we were switched to SCT and were again cleared to descend via the Catalina 1 TA; and cross SLI at 7000 FT. We had started down to make the 7000 FT SLI crossing; when ATC asked why were leaving 12;000 FT and told us to stop descent and level at 11;000 FT. I told them there were no crossing restrictions noted on the TA. ATC told us to cross waypoint number one at 11;000 FT and then continue descent to cross SLI at 7000 FT. I told her we did not have waypoint numbers; only lat/longs; and read her the first one to see if they corresponded. She said the lat/longs were not displayed on her strip. She then just cleared us to descend and cross SLI at 7000 FT at SLI; we were taken off the TA and given a heading for spacing. The landing and taxi-in were normal. I would suggest no more TA acceptances at LAX until there are moves taken to make sure both the ACARS and ATC strip printouts are identical. They should both be in lat/longs with a number following it in parentheses for easy reference/readback if needed. There should also be any altitude crossings printed for cockpit use; if ATC is expecting them. If there is not an immediate end to the mismatch of information; there will be no advantage to requesting the TA and a potential for confusion and increased radio communication time to sort out the details; not mention cockpit confusion as to ATC expectations.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Attributes
ACN	864531
Time
Date	200912
Local Time Of Day	0601-1200
Place
Locale Reference	ZLA.ARTCC
State Reference	CA
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Make Model Name	B747-400
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	Cruise Descent
Route In Use	STAR CATALINA 1 TA
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Function	Captain Pilot Not Flying
Experience	Flight Crew Last 90 Days 31 Flight Crew Total 25000 Flight Crew Type 3000
Events
Anomaly	Deviation - Altitude Crossing Restriction Not Met Deviation - Procedural Clearance Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy Deviation - Track / Heading All Types

A reporter commented that the tailored arrival into lax contained waypoints with altitude constraints which ATC had expected but which were neither on the clearance nor defined for the flight crew as to be expected.