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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 88567 |
Time | |
Date | 198805 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : dbq |
State Reference | IA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 33000 msl bound upper : 33000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zau artcc : zmp |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute airway : zmp enroute airway : zau enroute airway : j94 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 8438 flight time type : 6593 |
ASRS Report | 88567 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 6000 |
ASRS Report | 88050 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action none taken : insufficient time other |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 2000 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
Opp direction traffic, same altitude. At first sighting we couldn't believe he was at our altitude. Almost simultaneously upon sighting him ATC advised to 'turn to 120 degrees immediately.' because of the visual I clicked off the autoplt and immediately banked 40-45 degrees right. We just missed the aircraft which was another large transport Y that passed to our left. For future conflicts I believe ATC should say (in this instance): 'traffic conflict...call sign...turn right...' this way we will know the urgency upon his first word and all on frequency will be alert not to miss the call. (We believe we only heard his second call--his first was possibly blocked.) also, by the command 'turn right,' I don't have to waste valuable time consulting my compass for fear of turning the wrong way. The term traffic conflict would help overcome my constant fear of violating an far or altitude bust and being the scapegoat for the FAA. Even during my turn to the right, I was very conscientiously keeping my altitude within 100' during the 45 degree bank. I was afraid to bust an altitude. I could have pulled up 500' and been safe, but I was afraid to bust an altitude--how sad. The captain did the same--just sat and watched, no pull up. I hope the public will be happy to know that the constant threat of an FAA violation is keeping us level. We may spread aluminum over half of iowa, but we were 'level 330.' supplemental information from acn 88050: we discussed this incident afterwards and agreed that the lack of urgency in the controller's voice was a factor in not turning sooner. No explanation or apology was given by the controller and I had to request a telephone number since none was offered. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following: reporter got phone number for ZMP but did not call after landing because they had very short time on ground. Gave number and report of incident to his company dispatcher who should have talked to ZMP, but reporter has not had any further word on incident from any source. Reporter and his crew did not hear the other aircraft on frequency at any time, but could see air carrier Y making right turn for avoidance.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LESS THAN STANDARD SEPARATION AND CLOSE PROX BETWEEN OPPOSITE DIRECTION ACR ACFT AT SAME ALT. OPERATIONAL ERROR.
Narrative: OPP DIRECTION TFC, SAME ALT. AT FIRST SIGHTING WE COULDN'T BELIEVE HE WAS AT OUR ALT. ALMOST SIMULTANEOUSLY UPON SIGHTING HIM ATC ADVISED TO 'TURN TO 120 DEGS IMMEDIATELY.' BECAUSE OF THE VISUAL I CLICKED OFF THE AUTOPLT AND IMMEDIATELY BANKED 40-45 DEGS RIGHT. WE JUST MISSED THE ACFT WHICH WAS ANOTHER LGT Y THAT PASSED TO OUR LEFT. FOR FUTURE CONFLICTS I BELIEVE ATC SHOULD SAY (IN THIS INSTANCE): 'TFC CONFLICT...CALL SIGN...TURN RIGHT...' THIS WAY WE WILL KNOW THE URGENCY UPON HIS FIRST WORD AND ALL ON FREQ WILL BE ALERT NOT TO MISS THE CALL. (WE BELIEVE WE ONLY HEARD HIS SECOND CALL--HIS FIRST WAS POSSIBLY BLOCKED.) ALSO, BY THE COMMAND 'TURN RIGHT,' I DON'T HAVE TO WASTE VALUABLE TIME CONSULTING MY COMPASS FOR FEAR OF TURNING THE WRONG WAY. THE TERM TFC CONFLICT WOULD HELP OVERCOME MY CONSTANT FEAR OF VIOLATING AN FAR OR ALT BUST AND BEING THE SCAPEGOAT FOR THE FAA. EVEN DURING MY TURN TO THE RIGHT, I WAS VERY CONSCIENTIOUSLY KEEPING MY ALT WITHIN 100' DURING THE 45 DEG BANK. I WAS AFRAID TO BUST AN ALT. I COULD HAVE PULLED UP 500' AND BEEN SAFE, BUT I WAS AFRAID TO BUST AN ALT--HOW SAD. THE CAPT DID THE SAME--JUST SAT AND WATCHED, NO PULL UP. I HOPE THE PUBLIC WILL BE HAPPY TO KNOW THAT THE CONSTANT THREAT OF AN FAA VIOLATION IS KEEPING US LEVEL. WE MAY SPREAD ALUMINUM OVER HALF OF IOWA, BUT WE WERE 'LEVEL 330.' SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 88050: WE DISCUSSED THIS INCIDENT AFTERWARDS AND AGREED THAT THE LACK OF URGENCY IN THE CTLR'S VOICE WAS A FACTOR IN NOT TURNING SOONER. NO EXPLANATION OR APOLOGY WAS GIVEN BY THE CTLR AND I HAD TO REQUEST A TELEPHONE NUMBER SINCE NONE WAS OFFERED. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING: RPTR GOT PHONE NUMBER FOR ZMP BUT DID NOT CALL AFTER LNDG BECAUSE THEY HAD VERY SHORT TIME ON GND. GAVE NUMBER AND RPT OF INCIDENT TO HIS COMPANY DISPATCHER WHO SHOULD HAVE TALKED TO ZMP, BUT RPTR HAS NOT HAD ANY FURTHER WORD ON INCIDENT FROM ANY SOURCE. RPTR AND HIS CREW DID NOT HEAR THE OTHER ACFT ON FREQ AT ANY TIME, BUT COULD SEE ACR Y MAKING RIGHT TURN FOR AVOIDANCE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.