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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 89332 |
Time | |
Date | 198806 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : atl |
State Reference | GA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : atl |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | approach : visual enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 97 flight time total : 14000 flight time type : 192 |
ASRS Report | 89332 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 30 flight time total : 5300 flight time type : 30 |
ASRS Report | 89430 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course none taken : unable other |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 12000 vertical : 500 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error other |
Narrative:
Flight being vectored from rmg arrival to atl runway 8L final. Assigned speed 250 KTS. Descending to 4000' MSL. Both ILS aids tuned and set for approach. Autoplt engaged. Approach control asked if we saw traffic (Z) 5 mi ahead, we did not see the traffic. Vector heading revised from 180 degree to 140 degree and approach again asked if we saw our traffic or the airport. The captain called airport in sight and was given clearance for visibility approach to 8L. Overshot final to about midway between 8L and 9R. Captain directed turn to left to reintercept. During turn, ATC directed immediate turn to 060 degree. We replied that we were in the turn. (Autoplt disengaged to increase turn rate) ATC asked if we saw traffic Y at 2500' off our right. We did not see the traffic due to bank angle and speed traffic was probably behind us. Reintercepted course, continued descent, contacted tower and used all means to slow for landing due to closing on air carrier Z traffic ahead. Causes: 1) speed higher than usual for base-final turn. 2) captain accepted visual clearance while still looking for traffic ahead did not detect rate of closure with final course until too late to prevent overshoot. 3) dusk plus haze impaired visual cues to some degree. 4) one factor may be lack of planning, in part due to relinquishing speed control to ATC under most approach sequences in ATC. 5) first officer flying was inexperienced approximately 24 hours in type. Captain should have suggested speed reduction much sooner. First officer was 'keyed' to 250 by previous requests by center and approach to maintain 250 KTS. Callback conversation with reporter revealed following information. Does not know type of aircraft for air carrier Y traffic. There was steady stream for both runways. Reporter did see the air carrier which was ahead of them for same runway (8L). Were in left turn which would block view of traffic on paralleled approach. Says he should have told copilot to reduce airspeed much sooner. Thought controller realized that in trail sep was being lost due to high airspeed of air carrier X and so controller was anxious for them to see airport and preceding traffic so he could clear them for visual approach and make flight crew responsible for the sep. Never did see the traffic off to their right side, but had altitude sep from that aircraft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: POTENTIAL CONFLICT BETWEEN TWO ACR MAKING PARALLEL APCHS, AND PROBABLE LESS THAN STANDARD SEPARATION BETWEEN ACFT ON SAME APCH COURSE. OPERATIONAL ERROR.
Narrative: FLT BEING VECTORED FROM RMG ARR TO ATL RWY 8L FINAL. ASSIGNED SPD 250 KTS. DSNDING TO 4000' MSL. BOTH ILS AIDS TUNED AND SET FOR APCH. AUTOPLT ENGAGED. APCH CTL ASKED IF WE SAW TFC (Z) 5 MI AHEAD, WE DID NOT SEE THE TFC. VECTOR HDG REVISED FROM 180 DEG TO 140 DEG AND APCH AGAIN ASKED IF WE SAW OUR TFC OR THE ARPT. THE CAPT CALLED ARPT IN SIGHT AND WAS GIVEN CLRNC FOR VIS APCH TO 8L. OVERSHOT FINAL TO ABOUT MIDWAY BTWN 8L AND 9R. CAPT DIRECTED TURN TO L TO REINTERCEPT. DURING TURN, ATC DIRECTED IMMEDIATE TURN TO 060 DEG. WE REPLIED THAT WE WERE IN THE TURN. (AUTOPLT DISENGAGED TO INCREASE TURN RATE) ATC ASKED IF WE SAW TFC Y AT 2500' OFF OUR RIGHT. WE DID NOT SEE THE TFC DUE TO BANK ANGLE AND SPD TFC WAS PROBABLY BEHIND US. REINTERCEPTED COURSE, CONTINUED DSCNT, CONTACTED TWR AND USED ALL MEANS TO SLOW FOR LNDG DUE TO CLOSING ON ACR Z TFC AHEAD. CAUSES: 1) SPD HIGHER THAN USUAL FOR BASE-FINAL TURN. 2) CAPT ACCEPTED VISUAL CLRNC WHILE STILL LOOKING FOR TFC AHEAD DID NOT DETECT RATE OF CLOSURE WITH FINAL COURSE UNTIL TOO LATE TO PREVENT OVERSHOOT. 3) DUSK PLUS HAZE IMPAIRED VISUAL CUES TO SOME DEGREE. 4) ONE FACTOR MAY BE LACK OF PLANNING, IN PART DUE TO RELINQUISHING SPD CONTROL TO ATC UNDER MOST APCH SEQUENCES IN ATC. 5) F/O FLYING WAS INEXPERIENCED APPROX 24 HOURS IN TYPE. CAPT SHOULD HAVE SUGGESTED SPD REDUCTION MUCH SOONER. F/O WAS 'KEYED' TO 250 BY PREVIOUS REQUESTS BY CENTER AND APCH TO MAINTAIN 250 KTS. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED FOLLOWING INFO. DOES NOT KNOW TYPE OF ACFT FOR ACR Y TFC. THERE WAS STEADY STREAM FOR BOTH RWYS. RPTR DID SEE THE ACR WHICH WAS AHEAD OF THEM FOR SAME RWY (8L). WERE IN LEFT TURN WHICH WOULD BLOCK VIEW OF TFC ON PARALLELED APCH. SAYS HE SHOULD HAVE TOLD COPLT TO REDUCE AIRSPD MUCH SOONER. THOUGHT CTLR REALIZED THAT IN TRAIL SEP WAS BEING LOST DUE TO HIGH AIRSPD OF ACR X AND SO CTLR WAS ANXIOUS FOR THEM TO SEE ARPT AND PRECEDING TFC SO HE COULD CLEAR THEM FOR VISUAL APCH AND MAKE FLT CREW RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SEP. NEVER DID SEE THE TFC OFF TO THEIR RIGHT SIDE, BUT HAD ALT SEP FROM THAT ACFT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.