Narrative:

We arrived late on the first leg of a three-leg day. Both pilots were fresh and alert. This airport was experiencing a snow storm with heavy snow falling and visibilities ranging from 3/4 to 1/4 mile as the snowfall rate fluctuated. We boarded normally; received a deice sheet from the agent and then pushed back to deice just off the gate with the engines off. The deice crew seemed to be less than familiar with the procedures. I'm guessing this airport doesn't have to actively deice very often. It took nearly 30 minutes to complete step 1 (deicing with type I fluid). Step 2 went more quickly and we received a properly formatted deice report including a report of 'deicing/anti-icing completed; aircraft clear of all contamination.' all the surfaces visible from the cockpit (nose; wingtips and winglets) appeared clear. We completed the required checklists to reconfigure the aircraft; started the engines normally; and then began to taxi out for takeoff. Just a couple of minutes into our taxi; we got a call from the 'a' flight attendant reporting that one of our passengers sitting on the left side of the aircraft was a pilot for another carrier and he had advised her to call the flight deck and tell us that the left wing was covered in snow and ice and had not been deiced at all. The captain stopped the aircraft and asked the flight attendant to put a company captain; who was deadheading; on the line. He told the deadheading captain (who was sitting aft and on the right side of the aircraft with no view of the left wing) what we had been told by the other carrier's pilot and asked him to get up and take a look. After a few minutes; he called back and confirmed what the other carrier's pilot had reported including the words; 'the left wing looks like it hasn't been touched. We need to go back.' we called operations; advised them that we had not been properly deiced; and told them we needed to be deiced again. We stopped at the same spot and received a second two-step deice/anti-icing. Again; this seemed to take much longer than normal; although I don't remember the exact time. After receiving a 'clean aircraft' report; the captain called the flight attendant to ask the deadheading captain to confirm the condition of the wings. He did and reported that they all looked good. We proceeded to taxi out for takeoff but ultimately did not take off due to increasing snowfall and reported runway mu values of 11. After taxiing back to the terminal; we deplaned and the captain spoke to some of the agents. I was not privy to the conversation and do not know what was said. I think that there were two major issues that were pointed to by this incident. First; stations that do not get to deice and anti-ice very often need to be better trained and more proficient at these procedures. Throughout the two deicings mentioned above; as well as a third which we got two hours later once the conditions improved enough to allow for a departure; it was clear that the crew really didn't seem to be very certain of what it was doing. The bucket seemed unusually high and far from the aircraft which probably is one reason the deicing spray was not very effective and why the deicing took so long. In fact; the third deicing we got before ultimately leaving took 57 minutes. In 16 years of flying for far 121 carriers; I have never seen a deicing take 57 minutes and that includes a deicing of an aircraft that had been coated with clear ice due to freezing rain. Second; we; as flight crews; depend on the deice crew to report back to us in an honest fashion. Obviously; we always have the option of doing a cabin check but in this case we had no reason to do so. We were only minutes into our holdover time and all the surfaces we could see from the flight deck were clear. Expecting an honest clean aircraft report from the iceman is a single point of failure in the deice system. If he lies or misreports the condition of the aircraft; the crew has the potential toattempt a takeoff with contaminated surfaces. In our case; it was only the presence of another airline's pilot; who happened to be sitting in the right seat; which prevented us from doing so. This thought makes me very uncomfortable. Deice crews need to understand that they are performing a safety critical task and that lives are at stake. In addition; some sort of backup (short of requiring a cabin check every flight) needs to be worked out. Consider having a ramp supervisor or agent; who is not part of the deice crew provide a secondary confirmation of a clean aircraft.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A B737 First Officer reported that as the aircraft taxied for takeoff after deicing a pilot in the cabin reported one wing was still covered with ice and snow. The aircraft returned for a second deice treatment from a crew uncertain about what they were doing because of infrequent deicing operations.

Narrative: We arrived late on the first leg of a three-leg day. Both pilots were fresh and alert. This airport was experiencing a snow storm with heavy snow falling and visibilities ranging from 3/4 to 1/4 mile as the snowfall rate fluctuated. We boarded normally; received a deice sheet from the Agent and then pushed back to deice just off the gate with the engines off. The Deice Crew seemed to be less than familiar with the procedures. I'm guessing this airport doesn't have to actively deice very often. It took nearly 30 minutes to complete Step 1 (deicing with Type I fluid). Step 2 went more quickly and we received a properly formatted deice report including a report of 'deicing/anti-icing completed; aircraft clear of all contamination.' All the surfaces visible from the cockpit (nose; wingtips and winglets) appeared clear. We completed the required checklists to reconfigure the aircraft; started the engines normally; and then began to taxi out for takeoff. Just a couple of minutes into our taxi; we got a call from the 'A' Flight Attendant reporting that one of our passengers sitting on the left side of the aircraft was a pilot for another carrier and he had advised her to call the flight deck and tell us that the left wing was covered in snow and ice and had not been deiced at all. The Captain stopped the aircraft and asked the Flight Attendant to put a Company Captain; who was deadheading; on the line. He told the deadheading Captain (who was sitting aft and on the right side of the aircraft with no view of the left wing) what we had been told by the other carrier's pilot and asked him to get up and take a look. After a few minutes; he called back and confirmed what the other carrier's pilot had reported including the words; 'The left wing looks like it hasn't been touched. We need to go back.' We called Operations; advised them that we had not been properly deiced; and told them we needed to be deiced again. We stopped at the same spot and received a second two-step deice/anti-icing. Again; this seemed to take much longer than normal; although I don't remember the exact time. After receiving a 'clean aircraft' report; the Captain called the Flight Attendant to ask the deadheading Captain to confirm the condition of the wings. He did and reported that they all looked good. We proceeded to taxi out for takeoff but ultimately did not take off due to increasing snowfall and reported runway MU values of 11. After taxiing back to the terminal; we deplaned and the Captain spoke to some of the Agents. I was not privy to the conversation and do not know what was said. I think that there were two major issues that were pointed to by this incident. First; Stations that do not get to deice and anti-ice very often need to be better trained and more proficient at these procedures. Throughout the two deicings mentioned above; as well as a third which we got two hours later once the conditions improved enough to allow for a departure; it was clear that the Crew really didn't seem to be very certain of what it was doing. The bucket seemed unusually high and far from the aircraft which probably is one reason the deicing spray was not very effective and why the deicing took so long. In fact; the third deicing we got before ultimately leaving took 57 minutes. In 16 years of flying for FAR 121 carriers; I have never seen a deicing take 57 minutes and that includes a deicing of an aircraft that had been coated with clear ice due to freezing rain. Second; we; as flight crews; depend on the Deice Crew to report back to us in an honest fashion. Obviously; we always have the option of doing a cabin check but in this case we had no reason to do so. We were only minutes into our holdover time and all the surfaces we could see from the flight deck were clear. Expecting an honest clean aircraft report from the Iceman is a single point of failure in the deice system. If he lies or misreports the condition of the aircraft; the crew has the potential toattempt a takeoff with contaminated surfaces. In our case; it was only the presence of another airline's pilot; who happened to be sitting in the right seat; which prevented us from doing so. This thought makes me very uncomfortable. Deice Crews need to understand that they are performing a safety critical task and that lives are at stake. In addition; some sort of backup (short of requiring a cabin check every flight) needs to be worked out. Consider having a Ramp Supervisor or Agent; who is not part of the Deice Crew provide a secondary confirmation of a clean aircraft.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.