37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 93037 |
Time | |
Date | 198808 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : stl |
State Reference | MO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2500 msl bound upper : 4500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : stl tower : stl artcc : zbw |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing : missed approach |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 190 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 185 |
ASRS Report | 93037 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 130 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 110 |
ASRS Report | 92913 |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Intra Facility Coordination Failure other |
Narrative:
At approximately oddly intersection on the brush arrival we were told to slow to 210 KTS and 200 degrees heading to intercept the 24 ILS approach. Just prior to intercept we were told to turn left to 190 degrees and slow to 190 KTS for an approach to runway 30R. Then switched to next controller who immediately turned us to 120 degrees west/O any reason. We asked if it was for downwind and were advised that it was. Almost immediately we switched controllers and were given 250 degrees heading and 4500' until intercept and cleared for the approach. This heading was going to put us in real close and almost impossible to get down. As we crossed 2500' we were asked speed and told them 180 KTS and were advised to slow as rapidly as possible for we were overtaking aircraft in front of us. Approximately 30 seconds later we were told to go around and turn to 030 degree heading and 3000'. Then turned back to approach and to heading of 120 degrees and 3500'. Then turned to 270 degrees and cleared for second approach. This time we were advised WX now 600 and 3 and we slowed for an instrument approach. After being switched to tower and cleared to land we were advised to go around again and I asked why and was advised we were being overtaken. We did as instructed and were told to climb to 2500' and 060 degree heading. This time we were cleared for the approach and made it west/O any problems. We were advised to contact TRACON as we taxied in and I called and talked with the supervisor. We were only trying to do our job and they were trying to fly the airplane for us, and do it as though everything were clear and unlimited visibility. You just can't fly the same when in this type of WX. I would like a written explanation of what happened and some real good reasons for this situation. Supplemental information from acn 92913: we were next told to intercept localizer and cleared approach at 4500' this caused us to intercept the localizer above G/south. Shortly after we were broken off the approach and given a turn to downwind. We were told there was not enough spacing. We were given another approach to runway 30R and again intercepted above the G/south. They said that we were being overtaken from behind and after intercepting G/south again we were sent around instead of the aircraft behind us. At no time were we asked about our fuel status or given any courtesy on the radio. In my 14 yrs of flying all over the world this is the worst handling I have had and in my opinion constituted a potentially hazardous situation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR FLT CREW COMPLAINTS REFERENCE ATC HANDLING ON APCH TO STL.
Narrative: AT APPROX ODDLY INTXN ON THE BRUSH ARR WE WERE TOLD TO SLOW TO 210 KTS AND 200 DEGS HDG TO INTERCEPT THE 24 ILS APCH. JUST PRIOR TO INTERCEPT WE WERE TOLD TO TURN LEFT TO 190 DEGS AND SLOW TO 190 KTS FOR AN APCH TO RWY 30R. THEN SWITCHED TO NEXT CTLR WHO IMMEDIATELY TURNED US TO 120 DEGS W/O ANY REASON. WE ASKED IF IT WAS FOR DOWNWIND AND WERE ADVISED THAT IT WAS. ALMOST IMMEDIATELY WE SWITCHED CTLRS AND WERE GIVEN 250 DEGS HDG AND 4500' UNTIL INTERCEPT AND CLRED FOR THE APCH. THIS HDG WAS GOING TO PUT US IN REAL CLOSE AND ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET DOWN. AS WE CROSSED 2500' WE WERE ASKED SPD AND TOLD THEM 180 KTS AND WERE ADVISED TO SLOW AS RAPIDLY AS POSSIBLE FOR WE WERE OVERTAKING ACFT IN FRONT OF US. APPROX 30 SECS LATER WE WERE TOLD TO GO AROUND AND TURN TO 030 DEG HDG AND 3000'. THEN TURNED BACK TO APCH AND TO HDG OF 120 DEGS AND 3500'. THEN TURNED TO 270 DEGS AND CLRED FOR SECOND APCH. THIS TIME WE WERE ADVISED WX NOW 600 AND 3 AND WE SLOWED FOR AN INSTRUMENT APCH. AFTER BEING SWITCHED TO TWR AND CLRED TO LAND WE WERE ADVISED TO GO AROUND AGAIN AND I ASKED WHY AND WAS ADVISED WE WERE BEING OVERTAKEN. WE DID AS INSTRUCTED AND WERE TOLD TO CLB TO 2500' AND 060 DEG HDG. THIS TIME WE WERE CLRED FOR THE APCH AND MADE IT W/O ANY PROBS. WE WERE ADVISED TO CONTACT TRACON AS WE TAXIED IN AND I CALLED AND TALKED WITH THE SUPVR. WE WERE ONLY TRYING TO DO OUR JOB AND THEY WERE TRYING TO FLY THE AIRPLANE FOR US, AND DO IT AS THOUGH EVERYTHING WERE CLEAR AND UNLIMITED VIS. YOU JUST CAN'T FLY THE SAME WHEN IN THIS TYPE OF WX. I WOULD LIKE A WRITTEN EXPLANATION OF WHAT HAPPENED AND SOME REAL GOOD REASONS FOR THIS SITUATION. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 92913: WE WERE NEXT TOLD TO INTERCEPT LOC AND CLRED APCH AT 4500' THIS CAUSED US TO INTERCEPT THE LOC ABOVE G/S. SHORTLY AFTER WE WERE BROKEN OFF THE APCH AND GIVEN A TURN TO DOWNWIND. WE WERE TOLD THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH SPACING. WE WERE GIVEN ANOTHER APCH TO RWY 30R AND AGAIN INTERCEPTED ABOVE THE G/S. THEY SAID THAT WE WERE BEING OVERTAKEN FROM BEHIND AND AFTER INTERCEPTING G/S AGAIN WE WERE SENT AROUND INSTEAD OF THE ACFT BEHIND US. AT NO TIME WERE WE ASKED ABOUT OUR FUEL STATUS OR GIVEN ANY COURTESY ON THE RADIO. IN MY 14 YRS OF FLYING ALL OVER THE WORLD THIS IS THE WORST HANDLING I HAVE HAD AND IN MY OPINION CONSTITUTED A POTENTIALLY HAZARDOUS SITUATION.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.