Narrative:

This event is described to you to be more for information purposes than anything else, since there was no conflict during our descent on the wilkes-barre 2 arrival to teterboro. I feel that the arrival should be reviewed for jet aircraft flying at FL370 and FL410, since center consistently will keep you at cruising altitude until you are well beyond a normal 3:1 descent profile to make a crossing restriction of 13000' at wilkes-barre. On the date in question center cleared us to cross wilkes-barre at 18000' from our cruising altitude of 41000'. This means that we would have to be 70 mi out from wilkes-barre to meet our normal descent profile. This is approximately the position, give or take 5 mi, that center usually will clear you to descend. If cleared to 13000' instead of 18000', you are already behind your normal descent profile. Sometimes jet engines are slow in spooling back at altitude. This means that sometimes you need an extra few miles--84 mi to be exact. During our descent on the data in question, we were out of approximately 25000 first officer 18000' when center cleared us down to 13000' and contact another controller. This new clearance to 13000' relieved us of our crossing restriction of wilkes-barre at 18000', although we were just about on profile to make that anyway. Out of courtesy I informed the new controller that I might be a little tight making 18000' at wiles-barre on our way down to 13000'. Our position when I made this report was approximately 3 mi out and descending out of 18900' taking into account slant range effect. Center was appreciative and said to cross mugzy intersection at 7000', which we did. Mugzy is another 35 mi past or east of wiles-barre. In the past and now in the future I will always allow myself an additional 10-15 mi to get set up on an acceptable descent profile. A good spot to do this on this arrival is hoxie intersection. Hoxie is 101 mi west of wilkes-barre situated on the arrival course. Many times center loves to clear you to this fix on the wilkes-barre 2 arrival although it still is not depicted on the arrival plate. You can find it on a high altitude chart. I would also like this plate changed to include hoxie intersection on it and to allow aircraft to plan its crossing requirements more realistically. Maybe starting aircraft down earlier or making the crossing restrictions not so abrupt.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: LATE CLRNC AMENDMENT MAKES CROSSING RESTRICTION DIFFICULT

Narrative: THIS EVENT IS DESCRIBED TO YOU TO BE MORE FOR INFO PURPOSES THAN ANYTHING ELSE, SINCE THERE WAS NO CONFLICT DURING OUR DSCNT ON THE WILKES-BARRE 2 ARR TO TETERBORO. I FEEL THAT THE ARR SHOULD BE REVIEWED FOR JET ACFT FLYING AT FL370 AND FL410, SINCE CENTER CONSISTENTLY WILL KEEP YOU AT CRUISING ALT UNTIL YOU ARE WELL BEYOND A NORMAL 3:1 DSCNT PROFILE TO MAKE A XING RESTRICTION OF 13000' AT WILKES-BARRE. ON THE DATE IN QUESTION CENTER CLRED US TO CROSS WILKES-BARRE AT 18000' FROM OUR CRUISING ALT OF 41000'. THIS MEANS THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO BE 70 MI OUT FROM WILKES-BARRE TO MEET OUR NORMAL DSCNT PROFILE. THIS IS APPROX THE POS, GIVE OR TAKE 5 MI, THAT CENTER USUALLY WILL CLR YOU TO DSND. IF CLRED TO 13000' INSTEAD OF 18000', YOU ARE ALREADY BEHIND YOUR NORMAL DSCNT PROFILE. SOMETIMES JET ENGS ARE SLOW IN SPOOLING BACK AT ALT. THIS MEANS THAT SOMETIMES YOU NEED AN EXTRA FEW MILES--84 MI TO BE EXACT. DURING OUR DSCNT ON THE DATA IN QUESTION, WE WERE OUT OF APPROX 25000 FO 18000' WHEN CENTER CLRED US DOWN TO 13000' AND CONTACT ANOTHER CTLR. THIS NEW CLRNC TO 13000' RELIEVED US OF OUR XING RESTRICTION OF WILKES-BARRE AT 18000', ALTHOUGH WE WERE JUST ABOUT ON PROFILE TO MAKE THAT ANYWAY. OUT OF COURTESY I INFORMED THE NEW CTLR THAT I MIGHT BE A LITTLE TIGHT MAKING 18000' AT WILES-BARRE ON OUR WAY DOWN TO 13000'. OUR POS WHEN I MADE THIS RPT WAS APPROX 3 MI OUT AND DSNDING OUT OF 18900' TAKING INTO ACCOUNT SLANT RANGE EFFECT. CENTER WAS APPRECIATIVE AND SAID TO CROSS MUGZY INTXN AT 7000', WHICH WE DID. MUGZY IS ANOTHER 35 MI PAST OR E OF WILES-BARRE. IN THE PAST AND NOW IN THE FUTURE I WILL ALWAYS ALLOW MYSELF AN ADDITIONAL 10-15 MI TO GET SET UP ON AN ACCEPTABLE DSCNT PROFILE. A GOOD SPOT TO DO THIS ON THIS ARR IS HOXIE INTXN. HOXIE IS 101 MI W OF WILKES-BARRE SITUATED ON THE ARR COURSE. MANY TIMES CENTER LOVES TO CLR YOU TO THIS FIX ON THE WILKES-BARRE 2 ARR ALTHOUGH IT STILL IS NOT DEPICTED ON THE ARR PLATE. YOU CAN FIND IT ON A HIGH ALT CHART. I WOULD ALSO LIKE THIS PLATE CHANGED TO INCLUDE HOXIE INTXN ON IT AND TO ALLOW ACFT TO PLAN ITS XING REQUIREMENTS MORE REALISTICALLY. MAYBE STARTING ACFT DOWN EARLIER OR MAKING THE XING RESTRICTIONS NOT SO ABRUPT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.