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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 97674 |
Time | |
Date | 198811 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3500 msl bound upper : 3500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 12000 |
ASRS Report | 97674 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
I was captain conducting initial first officer operating experience training under appendix H training. The WX at lax was approximately 700'/2 1/2 mi visibility. Approaching smo on the fim arrival, approach control (124.5) told us we would receive runway 24R, localizer frequency 108.5. We departed smo on an assigned 070 degree heading. Approach control was busy and several xmissions were blocked by other aircraft. We were given a turn to base and then told to fly 240 degrees to intercept the localizer. As we were going through the localizer for runway 24R, I told approach we were turning to 260 degrees to intercept and that we were going through the localizer. Approach control did not reply. Approximately 10-20 seconds later, I attempted to get clarification, but approach control came on to tell us to turn south for the runway 25L localizer, and then that we were conflicting with traffic on runway 24R, turn to 150 degrees (?), climb to 5000' (which we did). I informed approach that we had not acknowledged any clearance to runway 25L (109.9). We were then vectored for an approach to runway 25L and landed on runway 25 west/O further incident. Apparently approach had changed us to runway 25L, but we did not receive (nor hear) the clearance. We most certainly did not acknowledge the change, and the change was never reissued. This is becoming a constant problem at the busier airports. At ord, atl, sfo, den, lax, sfo, etc, approach, tower and ground controls get busy to the point where they hold the microphone switch open and transmit continuously, west/O receiving any acknowledgements from the air crews. There is not an opportunity to ask for clarification in this situation west/O stepping on a transmission and compounding the problem. All of this occurs at a time when the flight deck is at its busiest: when radios are being tuned, checklists completed and gear and flaps repositioned. And, with the increase of 2-M crews and the hiring of less experienced crews in the future, we are going to have problems if this continues. We are going to have to give the flight crews a chance to acknowledge and/or clarify clrncs. The problem is getting worse!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LGT ON VECTOR FOR ILS APCH MISSED CTLR'S CHANGE OF ILS AND RWY ASSIGNMENT, HAD TO BE RESEQUENCED, FO RECEIVING IOE TRAINING.
Narrative: I WAS CAPT CONDUCTING INITIAL F/O OPERATING EXPERIENCE TRNING UNDER APPENDIX H TRNING. THE WX AT LAX WAS APPROX 700'/2 1/2 MI VIS. APCHING SMO ON THE FIM ARR, APCH CTL (124.5) TOLD US WE WOULD RECEIVE RWY 24R, LOC FREQ 108.5. WE DEPARTED SMO ON AN ASSIGNED 070 DEG HDG. APCH CTL WAS BUSY AND SEVERAL XMISSIONS WERE BLOCKED BY OTHER ACFT. WE WERE GIVEN A TURN TO BASE AND THEN TOLD TO FLY 240 DEGS TO INTERCEPT THE LOC. AS WE WERE GOING THROUGH THE LOC FOR RWY 24R, I TOLD APCH WE WERE TURNING TO 260 DEGS TO INTERCEPT AND THAT WE WERE GOING THROUGH THE LOC. APCH CTL DID NOT REPLY. APPROX 10-20 SECS LATER, I ATTEMPTED TO GET CLARIFICATION, BUT APCH CTL CAME ON TO TELL US TO TURN S FOR THE RWY 25L LOC, AND THEN THAT WE WERE CONFLICTING WITH TFC ON RWY 24R, TURN TO 150 DEGS (?), CLB TO 5000' (WHICH WE DID). I INFORMED APCH THAT WE HAD NOT ACKNOWLEDGED ANY CLRNC TO RWY 25L (109.9). WE WERE THEN VECTORED FOR AN APCH TO RWY 25L AND LANDED ON RWY 25 W/O FURTHER INCIDENT. APPARENTLY APCH HAD CHANGED US TO RWY 25L, BUT WE DID NOT RECEIVE (NOR HEAR) THE CLRNC. WE MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE CHANGE, AND THE CHANGE WAS NEVER REISSUED. THIS IS BECOMING A CONSTANT PROB AT THE BUSIER ARPTS. AT ORD, ATL, SFO, DEN, LAX, SFO, ETC, APCH, TWR AND GND CTLS GET BUSY TO THE POINT WHERE THEY HOLD THE MIC SWITCH OPEN AND XMIT CONTINUOUSLY, W/O RECEIVING ANY ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS FROM THE AIR CREWS. THERE IS NOT AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK FOR CLARIFICATION IN THIS SITUATION W/O STEPPING ON A XMISSION AND COMPOUNDING THE PROB. ALL OF THIS OCCURS AT A TIME WHEN THE FLT DECK IS AT ITS BUSIEST: WHEN RADIOS ARE BEING TUNED, CHKLISTS COMPLETED AND GEAR AND FLAPS REPOSITIONED. AND, WITH THE INCREASE OF 2-M CREWS AND THE HIRING OF LESS EXPERIENCED CREWS IN THE FUTURE, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE PROBS IF THIS CONTINUES. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE THE FLT CREWS A CHANCE TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND/OR CLARIFY CLRNCS. THE PROB IS GETTING WORSE!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.