Narrative:

Scheduled flight las-lax, cruising at FL240. Told to descend to FL230 (discretion) and cleared for civet 1 arrival into lax. Later told to descend to FL200, which I took for an intermediate descent. Unfortunately, the controller meant to cancel my civet 1 (which he legally did) but I didn't catch that. When the time came, I continued my descent for the civet 1 arrival. Going through FL180, he asked my altitude. He then cleared me for the descent, again. No traffic conflict according to the controller. My error is descending past FL200. Here's the problem: ZLA has stated in letters to the airline and to pilot group that when the clearance is given for civet 1, you may descend anytime and anywhere so as to cross civet intersection between 14000 ft and FL180 (published). However, you may not be on any published segment of the arrival until arriving at civet intersection (which you must cross below FL180). This seems to be in direct conflict with FAA aim, chapter 5, section 4, paragraph 5-46b or commercial ATC page us-360 regarding descending prior to being on a published segment of an approach. Yet, when I have called ZLA to ensure that I have clearance out of my flight level to start the civet 1, they have, numerous times, been 'huffy' on the radio as if to ask how stupid can I be to ask permission to begin my descent. I'd like to know by what authority/authorized ZLA can, in my opinion, deviate from the mentioned FARS and come up with this 'special' rule only for this 1 arrival (I've been told there's one at den, also). Am I reading this far incorrectly (or incompletely)? If so, please show me where their procedure is allowed by the FARS. Supplemental information from acn 294162: we were given a frequency change and checked in with 'FL240, cleared civet 1.' the controller acknowledged. He later cleared us to FL200. We acknowledged with 'FL200, civet 1.' the controller did not reply, thus we assumed that he wanted us to descend to FL200 and continue the civet 1 at our discretion. At the correct profile point, I increased my descent profile to make civet within the published restr. Passing FL180 the controller called us. Apparently, in his mind, he had automatically canceled our civet 1 by assigning a hard altitude.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ACR FLC FAILED TO RECOGNIZE THAT CTLR'S ASSIGNMENT OF INTERVENING ALT CANCELED OUT CLRNC TO DSND TO PUBLISHED ARR ALT.

Narrative: SCHEDULED FLT LAS-LAX, CRUISING AT FL240. TOLD TO DSND TO FL230 (DISCRETION) AND CLRED FOR CIVET 1 ARR INTO LAX. LATER TOLD TO DSND TO FL200, WHICH I TOOK FOR AN INTERMEDIATE DSCNT. UNFORTUNATELY, THE CTLR MEANT TO CANCEL MY CIVET 1 (WHICH HE LEGALLY DID) BUT I DIDN'T CATCH THAT. WHEN THE TIME CAME, I CONTINUED MY DSCNT FOR THE CIVET 1 ARR. GOING THROUGH FL180, HE ASKED MY ALT. HE THEN CLRED ME FOR THE DSCNT, AGAIN. NO TFC CONFLICT ACCORDING TO THE CTLR. MY ERROR IS DSNDING PAST FL200. HERE'S THE PROB: ZLA HAS STATED IN LETTERS TO THE AIRLINE AND TO PLT GROUP THAT WHEN THE CLRNC IS GIVEN FOR CIVET 1, YOU MAY DSND ANYTIME AND ANYWHERE SO AS TO CROSS CIVET INTXN BTWN 14000 FT AND FL180 (PUBLISHED). HOWEVER, YOU MAY NOT BE ON ANY PUBLISHED SEGMENT OF THE ARR UNTIL ARRIVING AT CIVET INTXN (WHICH YOU MUST CROSS BELOW FL180). THIS SEEMS TO BE IN DIRECT CONFLICT WITH FAA AIM, CHAPTER 5, SECTION 4, PARAGRAPH 5-46B OR COMMERCIAL ATC PAGE US-360 REGARDING DSNDING PRIOR TO BEING ON A PUBLISHED SEGMENT OF AN APCH. YET, WHEN I HAVE CALLED ZLA TO ENSURE THAT I HAVE CLRNC OUT OF MY FLT LEVEL TO START THE CIVET 1, THEY HAVE, NUMEROUS TIMES, BEEN 'HUFFY' ON THE RADIO AS IF TO ASK HOW STUPID CAN I BE TO ASK PERMISSION TO BEGIN MY DSCNT. I'D LIKE TO KNOW BY WHAT AUTH ZLA CAN, IN MY OPINION, DEVIATE FROM THE MENTIONED FARS AND COME UP WITH THIS 'SPECIAL' RULE ONLY FOR THIS 1 ARR (I'VE BEEN TOLD THERE'S ONE AT DEN, ALSO). AM I READING THIS FAR INCORRECTLY (OR INCOMPLETELY)? IF SO, PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE THEIR PROC IS ALLOWED BY THE FARS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 294162: WE WERE GIVEN A FREQ CHANGE AND CHKED IN WITH 'FL240, CLRED CIVET 1.' THE CTLR ACKNOWLEDGED. HE LATER CLRED US TO FL200. WE ACKNOWLEDGED WITH 'FL200, CIVET 1.' THE CTLR DID NOT REPLY, THUS WE ASSUMED THAT HE WANTED US TO DSND TO FL200 AND CONTINUE THE CIVET 1 AT OUR DISCRETION. AT THE CORRECT PROFILE POINT, I INCREASED MY DSCNT PROFILE TO MAKE CIVET WITHIN THE PUBLISHED RESTR. PASSING FL180 THE CTLR CALLED US. APPARENTLY, IN HIS MIND, HE HAD AUTOMATICALLY CANCELED OUR CIVET 1 BY ASSIGNING A HARD ALT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.