37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 98883 |
Time | |
Date | 198811 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : den |
State Reference | CO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 9000 msl bound upper : 9000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : den |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual approach : straight in |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 22000 flight time type : 7000 |
ASRS Report | 98883 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 75 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 10000 |
ASRS Report | 99013 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other other : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
Consequence | faa : investigated faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 200 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
We had arrived in the den area on a profile descent from the southeast. The runways in use were 26L and right, visual approach. We had been handed over to the final controller who asked us if we had our traffic in sight. Our traffic was an light transport business jet descending towards us from the northeast. I said, 'we have someone out there but not sure if it's the light transport.' approach replied, 'well, advise when you are sure.' about that time an F/a came into the cockpit and asked what gate we were going into as we had a passenger with a wheel chair going to another flight. The light transport started his descending turn and I could see his profile. I advised approach we had our traffic. Approach now cleared us for what I thought was a runway 26L visual approach call tower at altur OM. As we proceeded towards runway 26L, which was the closest runway to our arrival side, the light transport seemed to move over towards us. I thought he had overturned his turn for the right runway, since that was the closest runway to his arrival. As we approached altur I looked over my first officer and out his side window and saw the light transport at our altitude approximately 100' away. I cautioned my first officer of the light transport's position and then called the tower for landing clearance. The light transport replied first and said that we had cut him out. I said that I thought that we had been cleared for the left runway. The tower now replied, 'ok fellows, let's get this straightened out--now what are you going to do?', or words to that effect. I said we would move over to the right runway if we were far enough out in front. The tower said we were and the light transport confirmed it. So, we moved over to the right runway and received a landing clearance from the tower and landed. I called the tower from our WX room and they said they were going to read the tapes, but they were sure that we had been cleared for the right runway as the light transport jet was based on the south side of the field. This would save taxiing him across the active 26L runway after he landed. I guess this all makes sense, although I'm not sure crossing traffic in a congested area in the air is the best idea. I'm also sure that with the F/a interruption I heard what I expected to hear, 'cleared to the left runway.' it certainly made sense as it was the closest runway to our arrival with traffic descending towards us from the northeast. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following: reporter had not heard from ATC tower what tower tape actually said, but did say from a source the tower did run back transcript from computer of tracks of 2 aircraft and closest they were horizontal was 200'. Said his source stated everything on incident had been bundled up and sent back to washington which sounded to him like tower may be looking at why a crossover operation. His company did get communication from FAA that investigation was being conducted, but to date reporter has no contacts from FAA. Stated light transport had medium large transport in sight and he wondered why the light transport kept boring so close. Light transport was one who reported incident as a near miss. Supplemental information from acn 99013: when we were cleared for the visual the runway designation did not sound correct. I asked the captain to verify, 'we are cleared to land on the left?' he said, 'we are.' he seemed certain of it, so I commenced to head for the runway 26L OM and maintained visual on the light transport. Closer in the OM it appeared that the 2 planes were closing. I thought he was overshooting the runway 26R center line. I was going to ask approach what the light transport's intentions were, but was delayed in doing so by radio xmissions. I stayed slightly below and parallel to the light transport and kept him visually in sight at our 4 O'clock position. Near the OM the light transport stated 'air carrier X cut us off.' the captain then asked if we were cleared to land. The tower stated we were cleared to land, on runway 26R. The captain then asked if there was clearance for us to cross in front of the light transport to land on runway 26R. Apparent misunderstanding on our part, that we were cleared for the visual to land on runway 26L. At no time did I feel that we were too close to the light transport for safety, I maintained a position whereby: I had a safe exit with normal maneuvering of the aircraft, ahead, slightly below and parallel to light transport. Since the controller intended for 2 airplanes to cross in flight, he should have stated, 'cleared for the visual 26R (behind or in front of the light transport).' or, issued similar definite directions to the light transport. Since we were ahead of and below the light transport inside the OM, it would have reduced pilot corrections in both airplanes for us to land on runway 26L and him on runway 26R. If the light transport's understanding was that he land on the left and us on the right, he had at least 3-4 mi outside the OM to figure out that at some point one of us needed to cross paths, since we were ahead and below him. The logical thing would be to give us room to cross.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: TRACK DEVIATION BY ACR-MLG RESULTING IN POTENTIAL WITH CORP-LTT.
Narrative: WE HAD ARRIVED IN THE DEN AREA ON A PROFILE DSCNT FROM THE SE. THE RWYS IN USE WERE 26L AND R, VISUAL APCH. WE HAD BEEN HANDED OVER TO THE FINAL CTLR WHO ASKED US IF WE HAD OUR TFC IN SIGHT. OUR TFC WAS AN LTT BUSINESS JET DSNDING TOWARDS US FROM THE NE. I SAID, 'WE HAVE SOMEONE OUT THERE BUT NOT SURE IF IT'S THE LTT.' APCH REPLIED, 'WELL, ADVISE WHEN YOU ARE SURE.' ABOUT THAT TIME AN F/A CAME INTO THE COCKPIT AND ASKED WHAT GATE WE WERE GOING INTO AS WE HAD A PAX WITH A WHEEL CHAIR GOING TO ANOTHER FLT. THE LTT STARTED HIS DSNDING TURN AND I COULD SEE HIS PROFILE. I ADVISED APCH WE HAD OUR TFC. APCH NOW CLRED US FOR WHAT I THOUGHT WAS A RWY 26L VISUAL APCH CALL TWR AT ALTUR OM. AS WE PROCEEDED TOWARDS RWY 26L, WHICH WAS THE CLOSEST RWY TO OUR ARR SIDE, THE LTT SEEMED TO MOVE OVER TOWARDS US. I THOUGHT HE HAD OVERTURNED HIS TURN FOR THE RIGHT RWY, SINCE THAT WAS THE CLOSEST RWY TO HIS ARR. AS WE APCHED ALTUR I LOOKED OVER MY F/O AND OUT HIS SIDE WINDOW AND SAW THE LTT AT OUR ALT APPROX 100' AWAY. I CAUTIONED MY F/O OF THE LTT'S POS AND THEN CALLED THE TWR FOR LNDG CLRNC. THE LTT REPLIED FIRST AND SAID THAT WE HAD CUT HIM OUT. I SAID THAT I THOUGHT THAT WE HAD BEEN CLRED FOR THE LEFT RWY. THE TWR NOW REPLIED, 'OK FELLOWS, LET'S GET THIS STRAIGHTENED OUT--NOW WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?', OR WORDS TO THAT EFFECT. I SAID WE WOULD MOVE OVER TO THE RIGHT RWY IF WE WERE FAR ENOUGH OUT IN FRONT. THE TWR SAID WE WERE AND THE LTT CONFIRMED IT. SO, WE MOVED OVER TO THE RIGHT RWY AND RECEIVED A LNDG CLRNC FROM THE TWR AND LANDED. I CALLED THE TWR FROM OUR WX ROOM AND THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO READ THE TAPES, BUT THEY WERE SURE THAT WE HAD BEEN CLRED FOR THE RIGHT RWY AS THE LTT JET WAS BASED ON THE S SIDE OF THE FIELD. THIS WOULD SAVE TAXIING HIM ACROSS THE ACTIVE 26L RWY AFTER HE LANDED. I GUESS THIS ALL MAKES SENSE, ALTHOUGH I'M NOT SURE XING TFC IN A CONGESTED AREA IN THE AIR IS THE BEST IDEA. I'M ALSO SURE THAT WITH THE F/A INTERRUPTION I HEARD WHAT I EXPECTED TO HEAR, 'CLRED TO THE LEFT RWY.' IT CERTAINLY MADE SENSE AS IT WAS THE CLOSEST RWY TO OUR ARR WITH TFC DSNDING TOWARDS US FROM THE NE. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING: RPTR HAD NOT HEARD FROM ATC TWR WHAT TWR TAPE ACTUALLY SAID, BUT DID SAY FROM A SOURCE THE TWR DID RUN BACK TRANSCRIPT FROM COMPUTER OF TRACKS OF 2 ACFT AND CLOSEST THEY WERE HORIZ WAS 200'. SAID HIS SOURCE STATED EVERYTHING ON INCIDENT HAD BEEN BUNDLED UP AND SENT BACK TO WASHINGTON WHICH SOUNDED TO HIM LIKE TWR MAY BE LOOKING AT WHY A CROSSOVER OPERATION. HIS COMPANY DID GET COM FROM FAA THAT INVESTIGATION WAS BEING CONDUCTED, BUT TO DATE RPTR HAS NO CONTACTS FROM FAA. STATED LTT HAD MLG IN SIGHT AND HE WONDERED WHY THE LTT KEPT BORING SO CLOSE. LTT WAS ONE WHO RPTED INCIDENT AS A NEAR MISS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 99013: WHEN WE WERE CLRED FOR THE VISUAL THE RWY DESIGNATION DID NOT SOUND CORRECT. I ASKED THE CAPT TO VERIFY, 'WE ARE CLRED TO LAND ON THE LEFT?' HE SAID, 'WE ARE.' HE SEEMED CERTAIN OF IT, SO I COMMENCED TO HEAD FOR THE RWY 26L OM AND MAINTAINED VISUAL ON THE LTT. CLOSER IN THE OM IT APPEARED THAT THE 2 PLANES WERE CLOSING. I THOUGHT HE WAS OVERSHOOTING THE RWY 26R CENTER LINE. I WAS GOING TO ASK APCH WHAT THE LTT'S INTENTIONS WERE, BUT WAS DELAYED IN DOING SO BY RADIO XMISSIONS. I STAYED SLIGHTLY BELOW AND PARALLEL TO THE LTT AND KEPT HIM VISUALLY IN SIGHT AT OUR 4 O'CLOCK POS. NEAR THE OM THE LTT STATED 'ACR X CUT US OFF.' THE CAPT THEN ASKED IF WE WERE CLRED TO LAND. THE TWR STATED WE WERE CLRED TO LAND, ON RWY 26R. THE CAPT THEN ASKED IF THERE WAS CLRNC FOR US TO CROSS IN FRONT OF THE LTT TO LAND ON RWY 26R. APPARENT MISUNDERSTANDING ON OUR PART, THAT WE WERE CLRED FOR THE VISUAL TO LAND ON RWY 26L. AT NO TIME DID I FEEL THAT WE WERE TOO CLOSE TO THE LTT FOR SAFETY, I MAINTAINED A POS WHEREBY: I HAD A SAFE EXIT WITH NORMAL MANEUVERING OF THE ACFT, AHEAD, slightly BELOW AND PARALLEL TO LTT. SINCE THE CTLR INTENDED FOR 2 AIRPLANES TO CROSS IN FLT, HE SHOULD HAVE STATED, 'CLRED FOR THE VISUAL 26R (BEHIND OR IN FRONT OF THE LTT).' OR, ISSUED SIMILAR DEFINITE DIRECTIONS TO THE LTT. SINCE WE WERE AHEAD OF AND BELOW THE LTT INSIDE THE OM, IT WOULD HAVE REDUCED PLT CORRECTIONS IN BOTH AIRPLANES FOR US TO LAND ON RWY 26L AND HIM ON RWY 26R. IF THE LTT'S UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT HE LAND ON THE LEFT AND US ON THE RIGHT, HE HAD AT LEAST 3-4 MI OUTSIDE THE OM TO FIGURE OUT THAT AT SOME POINT ONE OF US NEEDED TO CROSS PATHS, SINCE WE WERE AHEAD AND BELOW HIM. THE LOGICAL THING WOULD BE TO GIVE US ROOM TO CROSS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.