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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 99961 |
Time | |
Date | 198812 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : air |
State Reference | OH |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 31000 msl bound upper : 31800 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zob |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 45 flight time total : 7745 |
ASRS Report | 99961 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 881 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 99706 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met conflict : airborne less severe other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Air Traffic Incident | other other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
I am a new captain on the large transport in my first 50 hours as PIC. My procedures and expertise on this aircraft are still in the learning stage. While en route at FL370 from dtw to dca I was trying to fill out the maintenance log book and get an ACARS message prepared to send for the maintenance. We were proceeding southeast toward air when center slowed us to 250 KTS and started to vector us around to get in line for dca. We were given an altitude change of pilot discretion to FL350. I set in the MCP window and elected to stay at FL370. After a little bit we were then given a left turn of 15 degrees. A few mins later we were then given a 180 degree heading. The wind was from the northwest at around 120 KTS. While on this heading we were then told to turn left to 070 degrees and descend to FL310. I set FL310 in the MCP (I do not remember receiving a crossing restriction) and started my turn and descent on the autoplt. Center came back while I was still in the turn and said, 'you have 2 mi to beat FL310.' we were at FL350, so I took off the autoplt, pulled the speed brakes and pushed down the nose. We were passing 32800' when the controller came back and said we have 15 seconds to be level at FL310. We were coming down now at 5000+ FPM. About 10 seconds later the controller asked for our altitude. We were passing 31800' and I told the copilot to tell him we were leveling at FL310, as I had started to pull the nose us so I would not go through FL310. Armel 1 arrival the procedure of having 2 different arrival procedures with the same name for 2 different airports is an accident and/or violation waiting to happen. Change the names! Supplemental information from acn 99706: not all controllers aware of limitations of large transport, ie low drag high lift aircraft that is slow to descend. High rates of descent cause passenger discomfort and unease. Some cockpit distraction arising from 2 arrs (dca, dulles) with same name (armel 1), same fixes, but different crossing altitudes. After receiving 3 successive vectors through the published arwy to bucko intersection, the controller cleared us to FL350, pilot's discretion. While turning back to bucko and descending, the controller gave us further clearance to FL310. Very shortly thereafter, the controller announced that we had 15 seconds to level at FL310 due to crossing traffic at FL330. With urgency in his voice the controller then requested us to call level at FL310.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: POTENTIAL CONFLICT AIRBORNE AND NEAR LOSS OF STANDARD SEPARATION. COMPLAINT ABOUT SAME NAME ARMEL 1 ARR BOTH DCA AND IAD WITH DIFFERENT PROC.
Narrative: I AM A NEW CAPT ON THE LGT IN MY FIRST 50 HRS AS PIC. MY PROCS AND EXPERTISE ON THIS ACFT ARE STILL IN THE LEARNING STAGE. WHILE ENRTE AT FL370 FROM DTW TO DCA I WAS TRYING TO FILL OUT THE MAINT LOG BOOK AND GET AN ACARS MESSAGE PREPARED TO SEND FOR THE MAINT. WE WERE PROCEEDING SE TOWARD AIR WHEN CENTER SLOWED US TO 250 KTS AND STARTED TO VECTOR US AROUND TO GET IN LINE FOR DCA. WE WERE GIVEN AN ALT CHANGE OF PLT DISCRETION TO FL350. I SET IN THE MCP WINDOW AND ELECTED TO STAY AT FL370. AFTER A LITTLE BIT WE WERE THEN GIVEN A LEFT TURN OF 15 DEGS. A FEW MINS LATER WE WERE THEN GIVEN A 180 DEG HDG. THE WIND WAS FROM THE NW AT AROUND 120 KTS. WHILE ON THIS HDG WE WERE THEN TOLD TO TURN LEFT TO 070 DEGS AND DSND TO FL310. I SET FL310 IN THE MCP (I DO NOT REMEMBER RECEIVING A XING RESTRICTION) AND STARTED MY TURN AND DSCNT ON THE AUTOPLT. CENTER CAME BACK WHILE I WAS STILL IN THE TURN AND SAID, 'YOU HAVE 2 MI TO BEAT FL310.' WE WERE AT FL350, SO I TOOK OFF THE AUTOPLT, PULLED THE SPD BRAKES AND PUSHED DOWN THE NOSE. WE WERE PASSING 32800' WHEN THE CTLR CAME BACK AND SAID WE HAVE 15 SECS TO BE LEVEL AT FL310. WE WERE COMING DOWN NOW AT 5000+ FPM. ABOUT 10 SECS LATER THE CTLR ASKED FOR OUR ALT. WE WERE PASSING 31800' AND I TOLD THE COPLT TO TELL HIM WE WERE LEVELING AT FL310, AS I HAD STARTED TO PULL THE NOSE US SO I WOULD NOT GO THROUGH FL310. ARMEL 1 ARR THE PROC OF HAVING 2 DIFFERENT ARR PROCS WITH THE SAME NAME FOR 2 DIFFERENT ARPTS IS AN ACCIDENT AND/OR VIOLATION WAITING TO HAPPEN. CHANGE THE NAMES! SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 99706: NOT ALL CTLRS AWARE OF LIMITATIONS OF LGT, IE LOW DRAG HIGH LIFT ACFT THAT IS SLOW TO DSND. HIGH RATES OF DSCNT CAUSE PAX DISCOMFORT AND UNEASE. SOME COCKPIT DISTR ARISING FROM 2 ARRS (DCA, DULLES) WITH SAME NAME (ARMEL 1), SAME FIXES, BUT DIFFERENT XING ALTS. AFTER RECEIVING 3 SUCCESSIVE VECTORS THROUGH THE PUBLISHED ARWY TO BUCKO INTXN, THE CTLR CLRED US TO FL350, PLT'S DISCRETION. WHILE TURNING BACK TO BUCKO AND DSNDING, THE CTLR GAVE US FURTHER CLRNC TO FL310. VERY SHORTLY THEREAFTER, THE CTLR ANNOUNCED THAT WE HAD 15 SECS TO LEVEL AT FL310 DUE TO XING TFC AT FL330. WITH URGENCY IN HIS VOICE THE CTLR THEN REQUESTED US TO CALL LEVEL AT FL310.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.