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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 101690 |
Time | |
Date | 198901 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : bsr airport : sfo |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 35000 msl bound upper : 35000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zoa |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | arrival : profile descent |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 14000 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 101690 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Deviation |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
An important item needs immediate, emergency notification of all controllers and pilots! We were cleared for the profile arrival to sfo, after big sur VOR. Later we were cleared via the profile only, over big sur VOR, by the next controller. After discussing this with my first officer my interpretation of fly 'the profile only,' was to fly the profile and make all restrictions on the profile. The first officer pointed out (being from the west coast) that this was a common clearance phraseology used by west coast controllers, meaning fly only the profile, but maintain the last assigned altitude! I had never heard this confusing terminology used before, so we questioned the controller. He confirmed that he wanted us to maintain FL350 and fly the depicted profile. This was much more clear to me that 'fly the profile only.' warning: many of us at air carrier, although we have flown to the west coast previously, are predominantly from the east coast. Terms used by west coast controllers which are not standardized and clear will result in an accident someday. We caught the confusing clearance before starting our descent. Some other crew may not. If a controller wants us to maintain an altitude, then he/she should state 'fly the profile and maintain the assigned altitude,' eg, FL350.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR MLG PIC CONFUSED WHEN CLEARED TO FLY SFO PROFILE ONLY WITHOUT ANY REFERENCE TO ALT OR DESCENT.
Narrative: AN IMPORTANT ITEM NEEDS IMMEDIATE, EMER NOTIFICATION OF ALL CTLRS AND PLTS! WE WERE CLRED FOR THE PROFILE ARR TO SFO, AFTER BIG SUR VOR. LATER WE WERE CLRED VIA THE PROFILE ONLY, OVER BIG SUR VOR, BY THE NEXT CTLR. AFTER DISCUSSING THIS WITH MY F/O MY INTERPRETATION OF FLY 'THE PROFILE ONLY,' WAS TO FLY THE PROFILE AND MAKE ALL RESTRICTIONS ON THE PROFILE. THE F/O POINTED OUT (BEING FROM THE W COAST) THAT THIS WAS A COMMON CLRNC PHRASEOLOGY USED BY W COAST CTLRS, MEANING FLY ONLY THE PROFILE, BUT MAINTAIN THE LAST ASSIGNED ALT! I HAD NEVER HEARD THIS CONFUSING TERMINOLOGY USED BEFORE, SO WE QUESTIONED THE CTLR. HE CONFIRMED THAT HE WANTED US TO MAINTAIN FL350 AND FLY THE DEPICTED PROFILE. THIS WAS MUCH MORE CLEAR TO ME THAT 'FLY THE PROFILE ONLY.' WARNING: MANY OF US AT ACR, ALTHOUGH WE HAVE FLOWN TO THE W COAST PREVIOUSLY, ARE PREDOMINANTLY FROM THE E COAST. TERMS USED BY W COAST CTLRS WHICH ARE NOT STANDARDIZED AND CLEAR WILL RESULT IN AN ACCIDENT SOMEDAY. WE CAUGHT THE CONFUSING CLRNC BEFORE STARTING OUR DSCNT. SOME OTHER CREW MAY NOT. IF A CTLR WANTS US TO MAINTAIN AN ALT, THEN HE/SHE SHOULD STATE 'FLY THE PROFILE AND MAINTAIN THE ASSIGNED ALT,' EG, FL350.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.