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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 103574 |
Time | |
Date | 198902 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : mem |
State Reference | IN |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 23600 msl bound upper : 31000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zme tower : buf |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
Route In Use | arrival star : star enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 103574 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 8000 |
ASRS Report | 103806 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
Flight bxa pit mem. We flew the middy 7 arrival with bwg transition when ATC never turned us towards mem. Our DME off bug dropped off and became inoperative at approximately qurtz intersection. Mem VOR azimuth was OTS. When we realized ATC forgot about us at qurtz we requested lower. Then ATC seemed surprised to have us on his frequency and was confused about some other air carrier bxa. We were cleared from FL310 to 240 and instructed to, 'turn right 360.' the way he said that confused us--wondering if he wanted a 360 degree turn to right or a right to heading of 360 degrees. I descended at a good rate at captain's request, autoplt flew inadvertently through FL240 to approximately FL236 for a brief time. I then took aircraft off autoplt and leveled off at FL240 west/O delay, then ATC vectored us to mem west/O incident. Summary: ATC forgot about us, DME quit at qurtz, mem azimuth OTS caused this to happen. Supplemental information from acn 103806: after 2-3 requests to ATC for lower and after we established that we were not a air carrier B flight with a similar call sign, the controller gave us clearance to FL240 and a turn to the right to 360 degrees. During the turn the captain asked for clarification of the turn--was it to a heading of 360 degrees, or a right 360 degree turn? Another voice then came on the frequency and gave us a heading of 060 degrees, then to 140 degrees, then 240 degrees. Well, what happened here? 2 things I think. The controller originally forgot to either switch our frequency or forgot to give us a descent well before qurtz. Qurtz at 59 DME from mem is too close to make a normal descent straight in to mem from FL310. Nor did the controller give us a vector fom qurtz, which would be required since the mem azimuth was out. The captain and first officer cruising at FL310 discussing the emergency checklist did not pick up the controller's error until at qurtz, when we asked him for a descent.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR MLG BEING VECTORED TO LOSE ALT AFTER BEING FORGOTTEN BY CTLR OVERSHOOTS ALT ON DESCENT.
Narrative: FLT BXA PIT MEM. WE FLEW THE MIDDY 7 ARR WITH BWG TRANSITION WHEN ATC NEVER TURNED US TOWARDS MEM. OUR DME OFF BUG DROPPED OFF AND BECAME INOP AT APPROX QURTZ INTXN. MEM VOR AZIMUTH WAS OTS. WHEN WE REALIZED ATC FORGOT ABOUT US AT QURTZ WE REQUESTED LOWER. THEN ATC SEEMED SURPRISED TO HAVE US ON HIS FREQ AND WAS CONFUSED ABOUT SOME OTHER ACR BXA. WE WERE CLRED FROM FL310 TO 240 AND INSTRUCTED TO, 'TURN RIGHT 360.' THE WAY HE SAID THAT CONFUSED US--WONDERING IF HE WANTED A 360 DEG TURN TO RIGHT OR A RIGHT TO HDG OF 360 DEGS. I DSNDED AT A GOOD RATE AT CAPT'S REQUEST, AUTOPLT FLEW INADVERTENTLY THROUGH FL240 TO APPROX FL236 FOR A BRIEF TIME. I THEN TOOK ACFT OFF AUTOPLT AND LEVELED OFF AT FL240 W/O DELAY, THEN ATC VECTORED US TO MEM W/O INCIDENT. SUMMARY: ATC FORGOT ABOUT US, DME QUIT AT QURTZ, MEM AZIMUTH OTS CAUSED THIS TO HAPPEN. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 103806: AFTER 2-3 REQUESTS TO ATC FOR LOWER AND AFTER WE ESTABLISHED THAT WE WERE NOT A ACR B FLT WITH A SIMILAR CALL SIGN, THE CTLR GAVE US CLRNC TO FL240 AND A TURN TO THE RIGHT TO 360 DEGS. DURING THE TURN THE CAPT ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION OF THE TURN--WAS IT TO A HDG OF 360 DEGS, OR A RIGHT 360 DEG TURN? ANOTHER VOICE THEN CAME ON THE FREQ AND GAVE US A HDG OF 060 DEGS, THEN TO 140 DEGS, THEN 240 DEGS. WELL, WHAT HAPPENED HERE? 2 THINGS I THINK. THE CTLR ORIGINALLY FORGOT TO EITHER SWITCH OUR FREQ OR FORGOT TO GIVE US A DSCNT WELL BEFORE QURTZ. QURTZ AT 59 DME FROM MEM IS TOO CLOSE TO MAKE A NORMAL DSCNT STRAIGHT IN TO MEM FROM FL310. NOR DID THE CTLR GIVE US A VECTOR FOM QURTZ, WHICH WOULD BE REQUIRED SINCE THE MEM AZIMUTH WAS OUT. THE CAPT AND F/O CRUISING AT FL310 DISCUSSING THE EMER CHKLIST DID NOT PICK UP THE CTLR'S ERROR UNTIL AT QURTZ, WHEN WE ASKED HIM FOR A DSCNT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.