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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 103945 |
Time | |
Date | 198902 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : ida |
State Reference | ID |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 7700 msl bound upper : 8000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | enroute airway : v330 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 4300 flight time type : 800 |
ASRS Report | 103945 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 4800 flight time type : 190 |
ASRS Report | 103964 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
From jackson hole to idaho falls on V330, 16000', 280 KIAS. The flight is only about 60 mi or 17 mins long. We were clear of the mountains adjacent to jackson hole and had the city of idaho falls in sight. As there is no approach control at ida, my plan was to cancel my IFR clearance when the airport was in sight and fly a visibility approach to runway 2. The sky was clear, visibility 60+ mi, wind northerly at 14 KTS. Approximately 30-35 DME from iad, ZLC called and said, 'cleared for approach,' and nothing else. We asked if we were cleared to descent to 6500', the FAF crossing altitude for the localizer (back course) runway 2 at ida and got a noncommittal 'roger' response. Still planning a visibility approach, I started a descent to be in position to cross the FAF at 6500'. Passing 8000' ZLC called and asked us our intentions as the wbound MEA for V330 within 14 DME of ida was 8000'. We relayed our plans and were told to maintain 8000' unless the field was in sight. We stopped our descent at 7500-7700' and returned to 8000'. We were probably 10-15 mi from ida. Within 2 mins we had the runway in sight, cancelled our IFR clearance and flew a visibility approach to runway 2. 3 factors contributed to this situation. 1) such short flts demand the most planning and prior review of MEA, sectors altitudes and approachs. Time does not permit anything else. 2) after working for yrs in a total positive control environment, switching to a limited control environment takes a greater adjustment than I expected. 3) precise communication is essential, even in total VMC conditions. I know ZLC would have been more explicit in its instructions in IFR WX. I should have asked them for the same type of clearance here, especially since I was not accustomed to working west/O an approach control. Supplemental information from acn 103964: proper procedure would have been to cancel IFR or maintain MEA to initial approach fix. Neither of us were used to being cleared first officer the approach 40 mi from the airport and were not thinking in terms of an IFR environment. Technically we screwed up, but we did announce our intentions (descending to 6500') to screw up.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR MLG WHEN CLEARED FOR APCH TO NON TWR ARPT BY ARTCC ENROUTE WENT BELOW MEA.
Narrative: FROM JACKSON HOLE TO IDAHO FALLS ON V330, 16000', 280 KIAS. THE FLT IS ONLY ABOUT 60 MI OR 17 MINS LONG. WE WERE CLR OF THE MOUNTAINS ADJACENT TO JACKSON HOLE AND HAD THE CITY OF IDAHO FALLS IN SIGHT. AS THERE IS NO APCH CTL AT IDA, MY PLAN WAS TO CANCEL MY IFR CLRNC WHEN THE ARPT WAS IN SIGHT AND FLY A VIS APCH TO RWY 2. THE SKY WAS CLR, VISIBILITY 60+ MI, WIND NORTHERLY AT 14 KTS. APPROX 30-35 DME FROM IAD, ZLC CALLED AND SAID, 'CLRED FOR APCH,' AND NOTHING ELSE. WE ASKED IF WE WERE CLRED TO DSCNT TO 6500', THE FAF XING ALT FOR THE LOC (BACK COURSE) RWY 2 AT IDA AND GOT A NONCOMMITTAL 'ROGER' RESPONSE. STILL PLANNING A VIS APCH, I STARTED A DSCNT TO BE IN POS TO CROSS THE FAF AT 6500'. PASSING 8000' ZLC CALLED AND ASKED US OUR INTENTIONS AS THE WBOUND MEA FOR V330 WITHIN 14 DME OF IDA WAS 8000'. WE RELAYED OUR PLANS AND WERE TOLD TO MAINTAIN 8000' UNLESS THE FIELD WAS IN SIGHT. WE STOPPED OUR DSCNT AT 7500-7700' AND RETURNED TO 8000'. WE WERE PROBABLY 10-15 MI FROM IDA. WITHIN 2 MINS WE HAD THE RWY IN SIGHT, CANCELLED OUR IFR CLRNC AND FLEW A VIS APCH TO RWY 2. 3 FACTORS CONTRIBUTED TO THIS SITUATION. 1) SUCH SHORT FLTS DEMAND THE MOST PLANNING AND PRIOR REVIEW OF MEA, SECTORS ALTS AND APCHS. TIME DOES NOT PERMIT ANYTHING ELSE. 2) AFTER WORKING FOR YRS IN A TOTAL POSITIVE CTL ENVIRONMENT, SWITCHING TO A LIMITED CTL ENVIRONMENT TAKES A GREATER ADJUSTMENT THAN I EXPECTED. 3) PRECISE COM IS ESSENTIAL, EVEN IN TOTAL VMC CONDITIONS. I KNOW ZLC WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE EXPLICIT IN ITS INSTRUCTIONS IN IFR WX. I SHOULD HAVE ASKED THEM FOR THE SAME TYPE OF CLRNC HERE, ESPECIALLY SINCE I WAS NOT ACCUSTOMED TO WORKING W/O AN APCH CTL. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 103964: PROPER PROC WOULD HAVE BEEN TO CANCEL IFR OR MAINTAIN MEA TO INITIAL APCH FIX. NEITHER OF US WERE USED TO BEING CLRED FO THE APCH 40 MI FROM THE ARPT AND WERE NOT THINKING IN TERMS OF AN IFR ENVIRONMENT. TECHNICALLY WE SCREWED UP, BUT WE DID ANNOUNCE OUR INTENTIONS (DSNDING TO 6500') TO SCREW UP.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.