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Attributes | |
ACN | 1040928 |
Time | |
Date | 201210 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201-1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | RSW.TRACON |
State Reference | FL |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | A319 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Route In Use | STAR SHFTY |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | B717 (Formerly MD-95) |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Route In Use | STAR SHFTY |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Approach Departure |
Qualification | Air Traffic Control Fully Certified |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy |
Narrative:
Let me start out by stating we have procedures in effect for the last four years that have the potential to point aircraft at the same point (lbv) at the same altitude. We have had many issues with this; many have been reported. This problem continues to happen and miami center refuses to change the procedure calling it 'a performance issue'. If this is not fixed; something bad has the potential to happen at any time. I just sat down to take the position. My developmental plugged in to train and took the position. We had a hand off on a B717 on the shfty arrival at 10;000. We had taken a hand off on an A319 on the shfty arrival descending for 10;000. Both aircraft are coming from lal sector at miami center. Lbv sector had a sovereign inbound direct to lbv descending and flashing at us. When we sat down; he was descending out of about 13;000 or 14;000. As the sovereign continued at the boundary; my developmental and I noticed that they descended through 11;000 toward 10;000 ft. At this point; I had the B717 in the vicinity of lbv and the A319 equal distance from the lbv VOR as the sovereign level at 10;000 ft. My developmental immediately got on the land line with lbv sector and told them to turn the sovereign as we had 10;000 ft traffic direct to lbv. The controller seemed confused and never responded; but the sovereign started to climb from 10;200 back to 11;000 ft. At the same time we heard confusion on the lbv land line; we turned both the A319 and the B717 on headings of 240 to avoid any further issues. No separation error occurred. We have been trying for years to fix this problem. It's a simple solution. The LOA needs to be changed. We should never have procedures in effect that have the potential to point two aircraft at the same fix at the same altitude. Currently; we can be fed over the lbv VOR at 10;000 ft and 11;000 ft from lal sector. We can also be fed from the lbv sector over lbv VOR at 10;000 ft and 11;000 ft. That in itself is a major problem. The center is 'supposed' to coordinate with one another. Lbv sector is supposed to coordinate with lal sector when they have an arrival at 10;000 ft over lbv VOR. This doesn't happen!! We have filed many reports with many different events like this. We tried to have a LOA meeting with miami center and they said 'the procedure is a good procedure. It's a performance issue'. It is not a good procedure. There is no reason we should be scrambling to separate aircraft that procedures cause to be in danger of losing separation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: RSW Controller viced concern regarding an existing LOA procedure that permits two sectors to feed traffic over the same fix at the same altitude; the reporter recommending changes to the procedure.
Narrative: Let me start out by stating we have procedures in effect for the last four years that have the potential to point aircraft at the same point (LBV) at the same altitude. We have had many issues with this; many have been reported. This problem continues to happen and Miami Center refuses to change the procedure calling it 'a performance issue'. If this is not fixed; something bad has the potential to happen at any time. I just sat down to take the position. My developmental plugged in to train and took the position. We had a hand off on a B717 on the SHFTY arrival at 10;000. We had taken a hand off on an A319 on the SHFTY arrival descending for 10;000. Both aircraft are coming from LAL sector at Miami Center. LBV Sector had a Sovereign inbound direct to LBV descending and flashing at us. When we sat down; he was descending out of about 13;000 or 14;000. As the Sovereign continued at the boundary; my developmental and I noticed that they descended through 11;000 toward 10;000 FT. At this point; I had the B717 in the vicinity of LBV and the A319 equal distance from the LBV VOR as the Sovereign level at 10;000 FT. My developmental immediately got on the land line with LBV Sector and told them to turn the Sovereign as we had 10;000 FT traffic direct to LBV. The Controller seemed confused and never responded; but the Sovereign started to climb from 10;200 back to 11;000 FT. At the same time we heard confusion on the LBV land line; we turned both the A319 and the B717 on headings of 240 to avoid any further issues. No separation error occurred. We have been trying for YEARS to fix this problem. It's a simple solution. The LOA needs to be changed. We should never have procedures in effect that have the potential to point two aircraft at the same fix at the same altitude. Currently; we can be fed over the LBV VOR at 10;000 FT and 11;000 FT from LAL Sector. We can also be fed from the LBV sector over LBV VOR at 10;000 FT and 11;000 FT. That in itself is a major problem. The Center is 'supposed' to coordinate with one another. LBV Sector is supposed to coordinate with LAL Sector when they have an arrival at 10;000 FT over LBV VOR. THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN!! We have filed many reports with many different events like this. We tried to have a LOA meeting with Miami Center and they said 'the procedure is a good procedure. It's a performance issue'. It is NOT a good procedure. There is NO reason we should be scrambling to separate aircraft that procedures cause to be in danger of losing separation.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2013 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.