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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1059784 |
Time | |
Date | 201301 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201-1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | PHL.TRACON |
State Reference | PA |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | MD-11 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Component | |
Aircraft Component | Autoflight System |
Person 1 | |
Function | First Officer Pilot Not Flying |
Person 2 | |
Function | Captain Pilot Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Altitude Crossing Restriction Not Met Deviation - Altitude Undershoot Deviation - Procedural Clearance Inflight Event / Encounter Weather / Turbulence |
Narrative:
We were flying the paats RNAV STAR at an assigned airspeed of 280 KTS. ATC then told us to cross hedge at 15;000 ft. The captain selected level change (idle) and full speed brakes. The tailwinds were in excess of 100 KTS at that point and it looked like we would be high at hedge. The aircraft in front of us reported they would not be able to make the restriction due to the tailwind. The controller said 'just do the best you can.' then the aircraft behind us reported they would not be able to make the restriction; and the controller said; again; 'just do the best you can.' it didn't seem necessary to add to the already congested radios that we would also probably not make the restriction. We crossed hedge approximately 1;000 ft high. The controller made no mention of it and we continued the remainder of the approach and landing without incident. Earlier in the arrival we saw that we were going to be tight making the expected altitudes on the STAR and requested a descent. Instead of a descent clearance we got a frequency change and by the time I was able to check in on the new frequency we were well above the descent profile. The new controller gave us a descent with a speed restriction (280 KTS) but no altitude constraints. When the 15;000 ft crossing restriction at hedge was assigned we were already high on the descent profile; and that coupled with the airspeed restriction and the excessive tailwind; made it a clearance that could not be complied with.ATC must issue descent clearances earlier when strong tailwinds are present. Also; on my part; I need to clearly communicate to ATC; as soon as it is evident; when we cannot comply with a clearance. I was proactive in trying to get a clearance to start our descent but did not communicate our inability to comply with the subsequent clearance.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: High tailwinds and an ATC airspeed restriction caused the flight crew of an MD-11 to be unable to comply with the crossing restrictions on the PAATS RNAV STAR to PHL.
Narrative: We were flying the PAATS RNAV STAR at an assigned airspeed of 280 KTS. ATC then told us to cross HEDGE at 15;000 FT. The Captain selected level change (idle) and full speed brakes. The tailwinds were in excess of 100 KTS at that point and it looked like we would be high at HEDGE. The aircraft in front of us reported they would not be able to make the restriction due to the tailwind. The Controller said 'just do the best you can.' Then the aircraft behind us reported they would not be able to make the restriction; and the Controller said; again; 'Just do the best you can.' It didn't seem necessary to add to the already congested radios that we would also probably not make the restriction. We crossed HEDGE approximately 1;000 FT high. The Controller made no mention of it and we continued the remainder of the approach and landing without incident. Earlier in the arrival we saw that we were going to be tight making the expected altitudes on the STAR and requested a descent. Instead of a descent clearance we got a frequency change and by the time I was able to check in on the new frequency we were well above the descent profile. The new Controller gave us a descent with a speed restriction (280 KTS) but no altitude constraints. When the 15;000 FT crossing restriction at HEDGE was assigned we were already high on the descent profile; and that coupled with the airspeed restriction and the excessive tailwind; made it a clearance that could not be complied with.ATC must issue descent clearances earlier when strong tailwinds are present. Also; on my part; I need to clearly communicate to ATC; as soon as it is evident; when we cannot comply with a clearance. I was proactive in trying to get a clearance to start our descent but did not communicate our inability to comply with the subsequent clearance.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2013 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.