Narrative:

At the onset of VFR multi-engine training flight with student, see attached second sheet, instructed the student, simulating an instrument clearance, to depart torrance airport on 29L, proceed straight out for radar vectors to intercept lax VOR 170 degree right (V64), then to proceed to limbo intersection and hold southwest on V8, right turns. I initially assigned an altitude of 3500' to the student and reassigned the student to 4500' after he was established on V64. After takeoff I assumed the position of lax departure to vector the student to V64 and on to limbo intersection. While simulating lax TRACON I monitored frequency 124.3 MHZ for vigilance of other traffic. We cruised to limbo while climbing at approximately 500 FPM. Just prior to reaching limbo intersection the student had reached his assigned altitude of 4500' and leveled off. We entered the holding pattern as assigned and began to hold in right turns on V8. While monitoring la departure 120.3, I heard the controller give his traffic a report of traffic at his 12 O'clock altitude, 4500' MSL maneuvering. This report appeared to be our aircraft, from the description of the narrative. The controller next stated to his traffic, 'this aircraft may be an unauthorized intrusion of the TCA.' this was my first alert as to our situation and proximity to the TCA. Limbo lies just to the south of the 40/125 sector in the ssw portion of the TCA. Our maneuvering should not have put us into the TCA, but we were on the fringes of the boundary. (Note: we performed vot checks on both navigation radios with error less than 1 degree on the #1 and 2 degrees on the #2.) at this point in the flight I instructed the student to descend to 3500' MSL while maintaining the holding pattern. I wanted to assure lax TRACON that we were not in the TCA by descending to an altitude below the minimum floor of 4000' MSL of the 40/125 sector. We continued to hold for several more circuits while I further descended the student to lower altitudes to simulate a VOR approach for a holding pattern. On our last circuit I instructed the student to complete the holding pattern and at limbo intersection to indicate a mock VOR approach on the sli 071 degree right with minimums at 100' MSL. At this time we were over water approximately 3 mi off the coast line. The student commenced his descent and arrived at his MDA of 100' MSL approximately 1 mi from the shoreline. We then commenced a right turn and proceeded down the shoreline in low level cruise flight. We maintained 100' MSL altitude, cruise airspeed approximately 150 KTS at a distance of approximately 1000' from the shoreline. During this period we were in the proximity of powered and sailing vessels. We maneuvered the aircraft so it would never be over the top of a vessel at any time. The far [far 91.79(C)] states minimum altitude of 500' unless over water, but no closer then 500' to any person, vessel, veh or structure. During the portion of the flight, I do not believe we came closer than 800' to any vessel or person, but considering the previous possible TCA intrusion situation I felt that the entire portion near the TCA should be included. When we reached point fermy at the southern end of palos verdes peninsula, we initiated a climb to 5500' MSL and continued our training with a return to torrance at XX00 pm west/O further incident.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: LAX TRACON DETECTED TRAINING FLT HAD PENETRATED OUTER EDGE OF LAX TCA. FLT DESCENDED AND LEFT TCA, DESCENDING TO 100' OVER THE WATER BUT ALLEGEDLY AVOIDING BOATS AND SHIPPING.

Narrative: AT THE ONSET OF VFR MULTI-ENG TRNING FLT WITH STUDENT, SEE ATTACHED SECOND SHEET, INSTRUCTED THE STUDENT, SIMULATING AN INSTRUMENT CLRNC, TO DEPART TORRANCE ARPT ON 29L, PROCEED STRAIGHT OUT FOR RADAR VECTORS TO INTERCEPT LAX VOR 170 DEG R (V64), THEN TO PROCEED TO LIMBO INTXN AND HOLD SW ON V8, RIGHT TURNS. I INITIALLY ASSIGNED AN ALT OF 3500' TO THE STUDENT AND REASSIGNED THE STUDENT TO 4500' AFTER HE WAS ESTABLISHED ON V64. AFTER TKOF I ASSUMED THE POS OF LAX DEP TO VECTOR THE STUDENT TO V64 AND ON TO LIMBO INTXN. WHILE SIMULATING LAX TRACON I MONITORED FREQ 124.3 MHZ FOR VIGILANCE OF OTHER TFC. WE CRUISED TO LIMBO WHILE CLBING AT APPROX 500 FPM. JUST PRIOR TO REACHING LIMBO INTXN THE STUDENT HAD REACHED HIS ASSIGNED ALT OF 4500' AND LEVELED OFF. WE ENTERED THE HOLDING PATTERN AS ASSIGNED AND BEGAN TO HOLD IN RIGHT TURNS ON V8. WHILE MONITORING LA DEP 120.3, I HEARD THE CTLR GIVE HIS TFC A RPT OF TFC AT HIS 12 O'CLOCK ALT, 4500' MSL MANEUVERING. THIS RPT APPEARED TO BE OUR ACFT, FROM THE DESCRIPTION OF THE NARRATIVE. THE CTLR NEXT STATED TO HIS TFC, 'THIS ACFT MAY BE AN UNAUTH INTRUSION OF THE TCA.' THIS WAS MY FIRST ALERT AS TO OUR SITUATION AND PROX TO THE TCA. LIMBO LIES JUST TO THE S OF THE 40/125 SECTOR IN THE SSW PORTION OF THE TCA. OUR MANEUVERING SHOULD NOT HAVE PUT US INTO THE TCA, BUT WE WERE ON THE FRINGES OF THE BOUNDARY. (NOTE: WE PERFORMED VOT CHKS ON BOTH NAV RADIOS WITH ERROR LESS THAN 1 DEG ON THE #1 AND 2 DEGS ON THE #2.) AT THIS POINT IN THE FLT I INSTRUCTED THE STUDENT TO DSND TO 3500' MSL WHILE MAINTAINING THE HOLDING PATTERN. I WANTED TO ASSURE LAX TRACON THAT WE WERE NOT IN THE TCA BY DSNDING TO AN ALT BELOW THE MINIMUM FLOOR OF 4000' MSL OF THE 40/125 SECTOR. WE CONTINUED TO HOLD FOR SEVERAL MORE CIRCUITS WHILE I FURTHER DSNDED THE STUDENT TO LOWER ALTS TO SIMULATE A VOR APCH FOR A HOLDING PATTERN. ON OUR LAST CIRCUIT I INSTRUCTED THE STUDENT TO COMPLETE THE HOLDING PATTERN AND AT LIMBO INTXN TO INDICATE A MOCK VOR APCH ON THE SLI 071 DEG R WITH MINIMUMS AT 100' MSL. AT THIS TIME WE WERE OVER WATER APPROX 3 MI OFF THE COAST LINE. THE STUDENT COMMENCED HIS DSCNT AND ARRIVED AT HIS MDA OF 100' MSL APPROX 1 MI FROM THE SHORELINE. WE THEN COMMENCED A RIGHT TURN AND PROCEEDED DOWN THE SHORELINE IN LOW LEVEL CRUISE FLT. WE MAINTAINED 100' MSL ALT, CRUISE AIRSPD APPROX 150 KTS AT A DISTANCE OF APPROX 1000' FROM THE SHORELINE. DURING THIS PERIOD WE WERE IN THE PROX OF POWERED AND SAILING VESSELS. WE MANEUVERED THE ACFT SO IT WOULD NEVER BE OVER THE TOP OF A VESSEL AT ANY TIME. THE FAR [FAR 91.79(C)] STATES MINIMUM ALT OF 500' UNLESS OVER WATER, BUT NO CLOSER THEN 500' TO ANY PERSON, VESSEL, VEH OR STRUCTURE. DURING THE PORTION OF THE FLT, I DO NOT BELIEVE WE CAME CLOSER THAN 800' TO ANY VESSEL OR PERSON, BUT CONSIDERING THE PREVIOUS POSSIBLE TCA INTRUSION SITUATION I FELT THAT THE ENTIRE PORTION NEAR THE TCA SHOULD BE INCLUDED. WHEN WE REACHED POINT FERMY AT THE SOUTHERN END OF PALOS VERDES PENINSULA, WE INITIATED A CLB TO 5500' MSL AND CONTINUED OUR TRNING WITH A RETURN TO TORRANCE AT XX00 PM W/O FURTHER INCIDENT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.