Air carrier medium large transport activated MSAW during IAP ILS approach to runway 4 at lga.

Attributes
ACN	117351
Time
Date	198907
Day	Thu
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : lga
State Reference	NY
Altitude	agl bound lower : 700 agl bound upper : 2000
Environment
Flight Conditions	Mixed
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : n90 tower : lga
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng
Flight Phase	descent : approach landing other
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 6000 flight time type : 200
ASRS Report	117351
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Events
Anomaly	inflight encounter : weather non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation other spatial deviation
Independent Detector	other controllera other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

ATIS called ceiling 1300' and good visibility. Approach began normally. I was unable to identify 'peths' outer marker. I attempted on both receivers. Then I turned missed approach fix 'orchy' on #2 ADF. It appeared to point in the general direction but I could not get an identify. Our receivers are the older type which are hard to tune especially with a weak station. The captain intercepted the localizer but then started to get an intermittent flag on the localizer. Glide slope was still good. There were breaks in the undercast and I could see the ground. It appeared we would break out at any second. The flag became in view more than out of view. Two other aircraft, at least one of which was in front of us, told tower of the localizer problem. I was concerned but still felt we would break out soon, well above the terrain. When we did break out we were well offset to the left of course. We made a safe and successful and uneventful landing. When the localizer goes out is there any alarm in approach control or tower? If so, we could have used some help in the form of a surveillance approach or instructions for the voa approach. Tower did ask us about our altitude when they got a low altitude alert but they said nothing about our location relative to the localizer course. We were expecting to break out at 1300' and make a VFR final but when we didn't we should have missed, no question. Both the second officer and I decided we should have asserted ourselves. We really did expect to break out sooner because of ATIS and that we could see so much of the ground below us. When we did break out we realized how foolish we had been. I should have been better prepared with a back up approach but everything has worked so well so long that I got complacent. One gripe I have is the weakness of the signal of so many NDB's. You are unable to tune them in early in the approach. Marby at iah is a good example. Peths at lga was not notamed out on ATIS but I never found it.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ACR MLG ACTIVATED MSAW DURING IAP ILS APCH TO RWY 4 AT LGA.

Narrative: ATIS CALLED CEILING 1300' AND GOOD VISIBILITY. APCH BEGAN NORMALLY. I WAS UNABLE TO IDENTIFY 'PETHS' OUTER MARKER. I ATTEMPTED ON BOTH RECEIVERS. THEN I TURNED MISSED APCH FIX 'ORCHY' ON #2 ADF. IT APPEARED TO POINT IN THE GENERAL DIRECTION BUT I COULD NOT GET AN IDENT. OUR RECEIVERS ARE THE OLDER TYPE WHICH ARE HARD TO TUNE ESPECIALLY WITH A WEAK STATION. THE CAPT INTERCEPTED THE LOC BUT THEN STARTED TO GET AN INTERMITTENT FLAG ON THE LOC. GLIDE SLOPE WAS STILL GOOD. THERE WERE BREAKS IN THE UNDERCAST AND I COULD SEE THE GND. IT APPEARED WE WOULD BREAK OUT AT ANY SECOND. THE FLAG BECAME IN VIEW MORE THAN OUT OF VIEW. TWO OTHER ACFT, AT LEAST ONE OF WHICH WAS IN FRONT OF US, TOLD TWR OF THE LOC PROBLEM. I WAS CONCERNED BUT STILL FELT WE WOULD BREAK OUT SOON, WELL ABOVE THE TERRAIN. WHEN WE DID BREAK OUT WE WERE WELL OFFSET TO THE LEFT OF COURSE. WE MADE A SAFE AND SUCCESSFUL AND UNEVENTFUL LNDG. WHEN THE LOC GOES OUT IS THERE ANY ALARM IN APCH CTL OR TWR? IF SO, WE COULD HAVE USED SOME HELP IN THE FORM OF A SURVEILLANCE APCH OR INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE VOA APCH. TWR DID ASK US ABOUT OUR ALT WHEN THEY GOT A LOW ALT ALERT BUT THEY SAID NOTHING ABOUT OUR LOCATION RELATIVE TO THE LOC COURSE. WE WERE EXPECTING TO BREAK OUT AT 1300' AND MAKE A VFR FINAL BUT WHEN WE DIDN'T WE SHOULD HAVE MISSED, NO QUESTION. BOTH THE S/O AND I DECIDED WE SHOULD HAVE ASSERTED OURSELVES. WE REALLY DID EXPECT TO BREAK OUT SOONER BECAUSE OF ATIS AND THAT WE COULD SEE SO MUCH OF THE GND BELOW US. WHEN WE DID BREAK OUT WE REALIZED HOW FOOLISH WE HAD BEEN. I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER PREPARED WITH A BACK UP APCH BUT EVERYTHING HAS WORKED SO WELL SO LONG THAT I GOT COMPLACENT. ONE GRIPE I HAVE IS THE WEAKNESS OF THE SIGNAL OF SO MANY NDB'S. YOU ARE UNABLE TO TUNE THEM IN EARLY IN THE APCH. MARBY AT IAH IS A GOOD EXAMPLE. PETHS AT LGA WAS NOT NOTAMED OUT ON ATIS BUT I NEVER FOUND IT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.