Narrative:

Captain was pilot flying (PF) first officer was pilot monitoring (pm) relief pilot was in first observers seat. I was the second relief pilot on the flight seated in the second observers seat. It was a 12 hour flight with a planned landing at lax before dawn. Captain and first officer had 2 breaks: break 1 occurred 2 hours into the flight at had 2 hour duration. Break 2 occurred just prior to descent and lasted 3 hours and 40 minutes. Both flying pilots were back on the flight deck 30+ minutes before approach. Cleared via VISTA2 arrival in lax. Thence...cleared direct to smo VOR and then via heading 265 for vectors to ILS runway 6R approach. Lax was simultaneously departing runways 25. Weather was 1;600 broken 1;800 overcast; 10 miles visibility. Light winds; twilight. On downwind just past guppi intersection (FAF) we were at 6;800 ft descending to 6;000 ft. ATC cleared us to 4;000 ft and shortly after told us to turn left heading 160 for the base leg. Flaps only at 1. Speed was 240 KTS. First officer seemed surprised to be given base turn so soon and questioned the controller. Controller responded rather sternly; yes! Turn left heading 160. We started the turn; captain called for more flaps; and we began to slow. Controller cleared us to 2;000 ft told us to slow to 180 KTS. Our course was bringing us between ottes and guppi about 5 miles outside FAF. We were descending through 5;500 ft captain put the gear down. Began to slow and extend flaps. Controller asked us if we could get down okay. First officer looked at the captain who nodded yes. First officer replied that we could to the controller. Made final turn to 130 and intercept final at 4;800 ft cleared for the approach. Captain had nd scale set to 20 miles; so it was hard for me to see from 2nd observers seat how close we were to FAF. I was mostly watching vs and glide slope for limits and checked chart for FAF distance. When I looked again at the nd; I saw we were crossing guppi which has a crossing height of 1;800 ft on the glide path. Yet we were still at 4;000 ft; nearly 2;200 ft high. We were descending at 1;800-2;000 FPM to catch the glide slope in the clouds without the runway in sight. I kept waiting for either captain or first officer to call for a go-around. The approach was well out of stabilized parameters. I was about to call for a go around myself; when the glide slope came alive. Pitch window showed it captured; but GS became erratic as by then we were nearly over the approach lights at 2;800 ft! Finally captain and first officer called for a go-around. Go around was hand flown by the captain. Airplane cleaned up. Contacted approach and given vectors for another approach. Fuel down to 16K pounds. First officer remarked on erratic GS. I said GS was erratic because we were over the transmitter at 2;500 ft; and had passed the FAF at 4;000 ft which was 2;200 ft high. Returned for a second approach. Downwind at 5;000 ft. Base leg came further out. Captain still seemed slow to get flaps out for configuration. I prompted again to get more flaps out; especially because he was 8 knots below min maneuver for flaps 1. Controller gave us turn to heading 160 and asked to slow to 160 KTS; descend to 2;000 ft. Captain extended the speed brakes to slow. I said to captain; 'you need more flaps!!' watching the aoa I saw it move from the 3 o'clock position to the 1 o'clock position as the flaps began to come out. Captain finally extended landing gear finished getting configured and made a normal landing. Possible contributing factors...fatigue after 12 hour flight. I know I was tired having slept only about 3-4 hours during the flight and landing during my window of circadian low. Sleep inertia. Captain seemed a bit groggy when returning to cockpit prior to descent. Irregular operation to 6R. Normally we land straight in on 25L. The captain had been expecting that rather than the landing to the east. Rush to comply with controllers instructions. We should have asked for another delay vector to lose altitude. Basic lack of situational awareness. Can do attitude...??? We can get down!??? Oh no we can't. Late callouts by all pilots monitoring the PF. We needed to be more clear and vocal. Unstable approach...we never really got on the approach. Inside the FAF we never captured the GS. We never even descended below 2;600 ft on the first approach. Go around finally came after the GS became erratic as we passed over the runway and the PF realized there was no possible way to salvage this approach. Return to flight deck minimum of 45 minutes prior to landing. Do not accepted rushed or short approaches. Use autopilot to fly approach and monitor pilot flying closely. Re-emphasize appropriate use of flaps during slowing on approach.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: Two B777 relief pilots describe an unstabilized approach to LAX after a 12 hour flight. The flight is vectored in rather tight and the flying Captain does not realize the situation is untenable until passing over the end of the runway at 2;500 FT. A go-around is initiated and the second attempt is successful.

Narrative: Captain was Pilot Flying (PF) First Officer was Pilot Monitoring (PM) Relief Pilot was in First Observers seat. I was the Second Relief Pilot on the flight seated in the Second Observers seat. It was a 12 hour flight with a planned landing at LAX before dawn. Captain and First Officer had 2 breaks: Break 1 occurred 2 hours into the flight at had 2 hour duration. Break 2 occurred just prior to descent and lasted 3 hours and 40 minutes. Both flying pilots were back on the flight deck 30+ minutes before approach. Cleared via VISTA2 arrival in LAX. Thence...cleared direct to SMO VOR and then via heading 265 for vectors to ILS Runway 6R approach. LAX was simultaneously departing runways 25. Weather was 1;600 broken 1;800 overcast; 10 miles visibility. Light winds; twilight. On downwind just past GUPPI Intersection (FAF) we were at 6;800 FT descending to 6;000 FT. ATC cleared us to 4;000 FT and shortly after told us to turn left heading 160 for the base leg. FLAPS only at 1. Speed was 240 KTS. First Officer seemed surprised to be given base turn so soon and questioned the Controller. Controller responded rather sternly; yes! TURN LEFT HDG 160. We started the turn; Captain called for more flaps; and we began to slow. Controller cleared us to 2;000 FT told us to slow to 180 KTS. Our course was bringing us between OTTES and GUPPI about 5 miles outside FAF. We were descending through 5;500 FT Captain put the gear down. Began to slow and extend flaps. Controller asked us if we could get down okay. First Officer looked at the Captain who nodded YES. First Officer replied that we could to the Controller. Made final turn to 130 and intercept final at 4;800 FT cleared for the approach. Captain had ND scale set to 20 miles; so it was hard for me to see from 2nd observers seat how close we were to FAF. I was mostly watching VS and glide slope for limits and checked chart for FAF distance. When I looked again at the ND; I saw we were crossing GUPPI which has a crossing height of 1;800 FT on the glide path. Yet we were still at 4;000 FT; nearly 2;200 FT HIGH. We were descending at 1;800-2;000 FPM to catch the glide slope in the clouds without the runway in sight. I kept waiting for either Captain or First Officer to call for a go-around. The approach was well out of stabilized parameters. I was about to call for a go around myself; when the glide slope came alive. Pitch window showed it captured; but GS became erratic as by then we were nearly OVER THE APPROACH LIGHTS AT 2;800 FT! Finally Captain and First Officer called for a go-around. Go around was hand flown by the Captain. Airplane cleaned up. Contacted approach and given vectors for another approach. Fuel down to 16K LBS. First Officer remarked on erratic GS. I said GS was erratic because we were over the transmitter at 2;500 FT; and had passed the FAF at 4;000 FT which was 2;200 FT high. Returned for a second approach. Downwind at 5;000 FT. Base leg came further out. Captain still seemed slow to get flaps out for configuration. I prompted again to get more flaps out; especially because he was 8 knots below min maneuver for Flaps 1. Controller gave us turn to HDG 160 and asked to slow to 160 KTS; descend to 2;000 FT. Captain extended the speed brakes to slow. I said to Captain; 'YOU NEED MORE FLAPS!!' Watching the AOA I saw it move from the 3 o'clock position to the 1 o'clock position as the flaps began to come out. Captain finally extended landing gear finished getting configured and made a normal landing. Possible contributing factors...Fatigue after 12 hour flight. I know I was tired having slept only about 3-4 hours during the flight and landing during my window of circadian low. Sleep inertia. Captain seemed a bit groggy when returning to cockpit prior to descent. Irregular operation to 6R. Normally we land straight in on 25L. The Captain had been expecting that rather than the landing to the east. Rush to comply with controllers instructions. We should have asked for another delay vector to lose altitude. Basic lack of situational awareness. Can do attitude...??? We can get down!??? Oh no we can't. Late callouts by all pilots monitoring the PF. We needed to be more clear and vocal. Unstable approach...we never really got on the approach. Inside the FAF we never captured the GS. We never even descended below 2;600 FT on the first approach. Go around finally came after the GS became erratic as we passed over the runway and the PF realized there was no possible way to salvage this approach. Return to flight deck minimum of 45 minutes prior to landing. DO NOT Accepted rushed or short approaches. Use autopilot to fly approach and monitor pilot flying closely. Re-emphasize appropriate use of flaps during slowing on approach.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.