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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1215488 |
Time | |
Date | 201411 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201-1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | DFW.Airport |
State Reference | TX |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | EMB ERJ 170/175 ER/LR |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Route In Use | STAR SHAAM |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Captain Pilot Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types |
Narrative:
The flight was filed for the jovem STAR but with winds out of the south; we were reassigned to the debbb STAR with the ibake transition about 250 miles from dfw. Nearing fawnt intersection; we were given a clearance to switch to the shaam STAR with the fawnt transition; and to descend via. I got it changed and it was activated but then I couldn't figure out what altitude to set for the bottom of the descent clearance. I asked the first officer who also didn't see one; so we then asked ATC who at the same time asked if we were going to make the crossing at gregs at 9000. We explained that we didn't have any altitude depicted on our charts but that we would make the crossing; which I did. There was not violation at any time and ATC said nothing more of the event other than to question if we were going to make the crossing.the chart for the STAR is obviously flawed and needs to be fixed; its use suspended in the interim. Also; it would be helpful if ATC created a guideline for their controllers about changing stars; maybe a distance or time limit would be helpful. Pilots have the expectations to fly a particular STAR; we've looked at it; checked the crossings and speed changes; and looked at the weather that overlays the route. To get a change very close to the TOD doesn't allow for any of this to be done to the newly assigned STAR. Now we just plug it in and hope its right. If last minute changes need to be made; a descent should be issued with a heading and the instructions to set up for a new STAR issued.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: An EMB-170 flight crew inbound to DFW filed for; set up and briefed to descend via the JOVEM RNAV STAR; IBAKE transition was given two STAR changes during their descent; first to descend via the DEBBB then; as they approached FAWNT Intersection; via the SHAAM STAR. Upon programming they noted there was no 'bottom' altitude to set; in fact no bottom altitude anywhere on the arrival or the six transitions thereof. ATC then asked if they were going to make their 9;000 restriction at GREGS for which the only charted restriction is 'At 250 KT.'
Narrative: The flight was filed for the JOVEM STAR but with winds out of the south; we were reassigned to the DEBBB STAR with the IBAKE transition about 250 miles from DFW. Nearing FAWNT intersection; we were given a clearance to switch to the SHAAM STAR with the FAWNT transition; and to descend via. I got it changed and it was activated but then I couldn't figure out what altitude to set for the bottom of the descent clearance. I asked the First Officer who also didn't see one; so we then asked ATC who at the same time asked if we were going to make the crossing at GREGS at 9000. We explained that we didn't have any altitude depicted on our charts but that we would make the crossing; which I did. There was not violation at any time and ATC said nothing more of the event other than to question if we were going to make the crossing.The chart for the STAR is obviously flawed and needs to be fixed; its use suspended in the interim. Also; it would be helpful if ATC created a guideline for their controllers about changing STARS; maybe a distance or time limit would be helpful. Pilots have the expectations to fly a particular STAR; we've looked at it; checked the crossings and speed changes; and looked at the weather that overlays the route. To get a change very close to the TOD doesn't allow for any of this to be done to the newly assigned STAR. Now we just plug it in and hope its right. If last minute changes need to be made; a descent should be issued with a heading and the instructions to set up for a new STAR issued.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.