Narrative:

I was training a developmental on the terminal control position; which includes both departures and arrivals. We were first given aircraft Y on departure; who was a very slow climber that was on the LINDZ8 departure. His next fix was jnc; grand junction VOR; which means that we couldn't not turn that aircraft until he was either 13 miles northwest of the field or out of 14;000 feet MSL due to the mvas in that area. Then local control launched aircraft X right behind aircraft Y; who was also on the LINDZ8 departure. Aircraft X outperformed aircraft Y as it should have. There was also training going on in local control. At ase we cannot use diverging headings to separate traffic right off departure end. They will be on the same course until one on them reaches the mvas so that departure control can then turn them. We cannot vector below the MVA at ase because all of our prominent obstacles are not depicted on the radar map. The OJT instructor on local control didn't do anything to correct the trainee's mistake and let the whole thing happen. The last out local had was to stop the aircraft X at 12;000 feet MSL and keep him as slow as possible but aircraft X still caught up to aircraft Y before we were able to turn aircraft Y to a diverging heading. On terminal control; we told aircraft Y to expedite his climb and gave him traffic. The small aircraft was doing the best he could. We then gave aircraft Y a turn to 290 to try to separate the two aircraft but it wasn't enough. We couldn't turn that aircraft any further or else he would have flown into the MVA. When aircraft X had finally reached 12;000 feet MSL (the MVA for a right turn); local control switched him to us and we turned him right immediately. Once the pilot was on course; he came over to us and asked up to relay a message to local control. He said that he would prefer to sit on the ground longer then try to go that slow and remain that low. The local controllers went down stairs after finishing training and looked at the replay of the event. They notified us that it was not a loss; so the controller in charge did not file mandatory occurrence report on the event. An email was sent to me from the atm notifying me that he thinks this event in a loss but he wasn't sure if visual separation was being applied. I am not sure if visual separation with local control was being applied. This is a classic situation where you do not want to jam your departure controller. Know your types of aircraft and know that you do not have any outs if you decide to launch two aircraft back to back and the back one will outperform the front one. Also; if you are the OJT instructor; be smart about how far you are willing to let your trainee take it before it becomes a loss or an unsafe situation.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ASE TRACON Controllers report of a loss of separation given to them by ASE Tower. Controllers report on the situation and describe how it could have been fixed by the Tower.

Narrative: I was training a developmental on the terminal control position; which includes both departures and arrivals. We were first given Aircraft Y on departure; who was a very slow climber that was on the LINDZ8 departure. His next Fix was JNC; Grand Junction VOR; which means that we couldn't not turn that aircraft until he was either 13 miles northwest of the field or out of 14;000 feet MSL due to the MVAs in that area. Then local control launched Aircraft X right behind Aircraft Y; who was also on the LINDZ8 departure. Aircraft X outperformed Aircraft Y as it should have. There was also training going on in local control. At ASE we cannot use diverging headings to separate traffic right off departure end. They will be on the same course until one on them reaches the MVAs so that departure control can then turn them. We cannot vector below the MVA at ASE because all of our prominent obstacles are not depicted on the radar map. The OJT Instructor on local control didn't do anything to correct the trainee's mistake and let the whole thing happen. The last out local had was to stop the Aircraft X at 12;000 feet MSL and keep him as slow as possible but Aircraft X still caught up to Aircraft Y before we were able to turn Aircraft Y to a diverging heading. On terminal control; we told Aircraft Y to expedite his climb and gave him traffic. The small aircraft was doing the best he could. We then gave Aircraft Y a turn to 290 to try to separate the two aircraft but it wasn't enough. We couldn't turn that aircraft any further or else he would have flown into the MVA. When Aircraft X had finally reached 12;000 feet MSL (the MVA for a right turn); local control switched him to us and we turned him right immediately. Once the pilot was on course; he came over to us and asked up to relay a message to local control. He said that he would prefer to sit on the ground longer then try to go that slow and remain that low. The local controllers went down stairs after finishing training and looked at the replay of the event. They notified us that it was not a loss; so the CIC did not file Mandatory Occurrence Report on the event. An email was sent to me from the ATM notifying me that he thinks this event in a loss but he wasn't sure if visual separation was being applied. I am not sure if visual separation with local control was being applied. This is a classic situation where you do not want to jam your departure controller. Know your types of aircraft and know that you do not have any outs if you decide to launch two aircraft back to back and the back one will outperform the front one. Also; if you are the OJT Instructor; be smart about how far you are willing to let your trainee take it before it becomes a loss or an unsafe situation.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.