Vectors from departure controller on a VFR routing departure creates loss of standard separation bet...

Attributes
ACN	140344
Time
Date	199003
Day	Sat
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : sna
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 7500 msl bound upper : 7500
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : sna tracon : lax
Operator	general aviation : personal
Make Model Name	Small Aircraft
Flight Phase	cruise other cruise other
Route In Use	approach : visual departure other enroute : on vectors
Flight Plan	None
Aircraft 2
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer
Flight Phase	cruise other cruise other descent other
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	Other
Function	flight crew : single pilot
Qualification	pilot : private
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 14 flight time total : 1118 flight time type : 9
ASRS Report	140344
Person 2
Affiliation	government : faa
Function	controller : departure
Qualification	controller : radar
Events
Anomaly	conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : far other anomaly other other spatial deviation other spatial deviation
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	flight crew : became reoriented flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course flight crew : took evasive action
Consequence	Other
Miss Distance	horizontal : 3000 vertical : 0
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Ambiguous
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation Operational Error
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : unspecified

Narrative:

The following occurred on a clear, mid-day sat, on a flight from sna to boi. I am very familiar with area, however this was the first time I'd requested an 'orange departure.' I hadn't plotted it, simply assumed it cleared the east side of the lax TCA. Departing the sna arsa I was given the orange departure heading of 330 degrees and was level at my requested altitude of 7500' (wrong for the initial direction of flight) when departure cleared me to resume normal navigation, to squawk 1200 and gave me the ont frequency if I wanted to use it. Very shortly thereafter, less than 1 min perhaps, we spotted an airliner at our altitude, off to the left about 1/2 mi, and realized we may have had a TCA penetration. Up to this point, I hadn't monitored our position very well, assuming the heading given us was ok in all respects, and being occupied with the traffic callouts by departure, felt all was well. It wasn't until spotting the airliner and turning east that I found we were 25 mi from lax and could have been in the outer edge of the TCA a moment before. We cannot expect departure control to be traffic cops, and admittedly I was at an altitude which clearly would penetrate the TCA on the orange departure heading; however, I can't imagine departure clearing me to resume normal navigation if indeed we were in the TCA. I'd like to think otherwise--that they would have warned me. To preclude others from duplicating this act, perhaps the orange departure should have a dogleg in it at disneyland to a heading which would assure adequate clearance around the east side of the TCA, to mount san antonio college, for example. Ont approach often is so busy they cannot get back to you until you are through the area--especially on a short notice northbound flight as in this instance. A positive handoff to ontario in all arsa departures in this direction would be a definite aid to safety. Asking for a handoff doesn't always get results.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: VECTORS FROM DEP CTLR ON A VFR ROUTING DEP CREATES LOSS OF STANDARD SEPARATION BETWEEN AN SMA AND AN ACR ACFT WITHIN THE TCA.

Narrative: THE FOLLOWING OCCURRED ON A CLR, MID-DAY SAT, ON A FLT FROM SNA TO BOI. I AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH AREA, HOWEVER THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME I'D REQUESTED AN 'ORANGE DEP.' I HADN'T PLOTTED IT, SIMPLY ASSUMED IT CLRED THE E SIDE OF THE LAX TCA. DEPARTING THE SNA ARSA I WAS GIVEN THE ORANGE DEP HDG OF 330 DEGS AND WAS LEVEL AT MY REQUESTED ALT OF 7500' (WRONG FOR THE INITIAL DIRECTION OF FLT) WHEN DEP CLRED ME TO RESUME NORMAL NAV, TO SQUAWK 1200 AND GAVE ME THE ONT FREQ IF I WANTED TO USE IT. VERY SHORTLY THEREAFTER, LESS THAN 1 MIN PERHAPS, WE SPOTTED AN AIRLINER AT OUR ALT, OFF TO THE LEFT ABOUT 1/2 MI, AND REALIZED WE MAY HAVE HAD A TCA PENETRATION. UP TO THIS POINT, I HADN'T MONITORED OUR POS VERY WELL, ASSUMING THE HDG GIVEN US WAS OK IN ALL RESPECTS, AND BEING OCCUPIED WITH THE TFC CALLOUTS BY DEP, FELT ALL WAS WELL. IT WASN'T UNTIL SPOTTING THE AIRLINER AND TURNING E THAT I FOUND WE WERE 25 MI FROM LAX AND COULD HAVE BEEN IN THE OUTER EDGE OF THE TCA A MOMENT BEFORE. WE CANNOT EXPECT DEP CTL TO BE TFC COPS, AND ADMITTEDLY I WAS AT AN ALT WHICH CLEARLY WOULD PENETRATE THE TCA ON THE ORANGE DEP HDG; HOWEVER, I CAN'T IMAGINE DEP CLRING ME TO RESUME NORMAL NAV IF INDEED WE WERE IN THE TCA. I'D LIKE TO THINK OTHERWISE--THAT THEY WOULD HAVE WARNED ME. TO PRECLUDE OTHERS FROM DUPLICATING THIS ACT, PERHAPS THE ORANGE DEP SHOULD HAVE A DOGLEG IN IT AT DISNEYLAND TO A HDG WHICH WOULD ASSURE ADEQUATE CLRNC AROUND THE E SIDE OF THE TCA, TO MOUNT SAN ANTONIO COLLEGE, FOR EXAMPLE. ONT APCH OFTEN IS SO BUSY THEY CANNOT GET BACK TO YOU UNTIL YOU ARE THROUGH THE AREA--ESPECIALLY ON A SHORT NOTICE NBOUND FLT AS IN THIS INSTANCE. A POSITIVE HDOF TO ONTARIO IN ALL ARSA DEPS IN THIS DIRECTION WOULD BE A DEFINITE AID TO SAFETY. ASKING FOR A HDOF DOESN'T ALWAYS GET RESULTS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Vectors from departure controller on a VFR routing departure creates loss of standard separation between an small aircraft and an air carrier aircraft within the TCA.