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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 142387 |
Time | |
Date | 199004 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : lgw |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lgw |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : initial climbout : takeoff |
Route In Use | departure sid : sid enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 5500 flight time type : 700 |
ASRS Report | 142387 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 142389 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Departing runway 08R sam 2 departure london gatwick, ATC (departure) advised us to maintain runway leading for vectors and to delete speed restriction. I let the aircraft accelerate and enter into a standard rate turn to the left (after receiving instructions to do so from departure) to the new assigned heading. Aircraft is leveled off at 4000' and continued to accelerate to 280 KTS. ATC advises us to turn further left (this would place us parallel with the runway) to a new heading (approximately 260 degree) I roll the aircraft into a 30 degree bank and during the turn ATC requests that I 'tighten the turn up a bit'. I acknowledge the message but I inform the captain that the aircraft is unable to increase the rate of turn (angle of bank) which he in turn advises ATC. ATC replies that the turn is too shallow and that we are now in a departure on arrival corridor to heathrow. This appears to me to be a case of failure to relay adequate information to the flight crew by ATC. I could have turned the aircraft far sooner than I did however because of an ATC assignment 'maintain rh heading' in conjunction with ATC not telling us what it expected of us in the latter segment of the departure I had no choice but to follow their instructions. If they were concerned about airspace incursion why did they 'delete the speed restriction'. If I had been better informed as to what they might have expected I would have configured the aircraft differently. It seems that we were kept on our assigned heading too long and ATC tried to have us correct for their error by requesting that we 'steepen up the bank a bit'. In summary I feel we were not assigned the proper vectors for the turn. The speed restriction referred to is 250 KTS below transition altitude.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR ON PUBLISHED DEP FROM GATWICK GIVEN VECTORS, THEN REQUESTED TO TIGHTEN TURN. REPLIES 'UNABLE'. ENTERS CORRIDOR FOR HEATHROW TRAFFIC.
Narrative: DEPARTING RWY 08R SAM 2 DEP LONDON GATWICK, ATC (DEP) ADVISED US TO MAINTAIN RWY LEADING FOR VECTORS AND TO DELETE SPD RESTRICTION. I LET THE ACFT ACCELERATE AND ENTER INTO A STANDARD RATE TURN TO THE L (AFTER RECEIVING INSTRUCTIONS TO DO SO FROM DEP) TO THE NEW ASSIGNED HDG. ACFT IS LEVELED OFF AT 4000' AND CONTINUED TO ACCELERATE TO 280 KTS. ATC ADVISES US TO TURN FURTHER L (THIS WOULD PLACE US PARALLEL WITH THE RWY) TO A NEW HDG (APPROX 260 DEG) I ROLL THE ACFT INTO A 30 DEG BANK AND DURING THE TURN ATC REQUESTS THAT I 'TIGHTEN THE TURN UP A BIT'. I ACKNOWLEDGE THE MESSAGE BUT I INFORM THE CAPT THAT THE ACFT IS UNABLE TO INCREASE THE RATE OF TURN (ANGLE OF BANK) WHICH HE IN TURN ADVISES ATC. ATC REPLIES THAT THE TURN IS TOO SHALLOW AND THAT WE ARE NOW IN A DEP ON ARR CORRIDOR TO HEATHROW. THIS APPEARS TO ME TO BE A CASE OF FAILURE TO RELAY ADEQUATE INFO TO THE FLT CREW BY ATC. I COULD HAVE TURNED THE ACFT FAR SOONER THAN I DID HOWEVER BECAUSE OF AN ATC ASSIGNMENT 'MAINTAIN RH HDG' IN CONJUNCTION WITH ATC NOT TELLING US WHAT IT EXPECTED OF US IN THE LATTER SEGMENT OF THE DEP I HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO FOLLOW THEIR INSTRUCTIONS. IF THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT AIRSPACE INCURSION WHY DID THEY 'DELETE THE SPD RESTRICTION'. IF I HAD BEEN BETTER INFORMED AS TO WHAT THEY MIGHT HAVE EXPECTED I WOULD HAVE CONFIGURED THE ACFT DIFFERENTLY. IT SEEMS THAT WE WERE KEPT ON OUR ASSIGNED HDG TOO LONG AND ATC TRIED TO HAVE US CORRECT FOR THEIR ERROR BY REQUESTING THAT WE 'STEEPEN UP THE BANK A BIT'. IN SUMMARY I FEEL WE WERE NOT ASSIGNED THE PROPER VECTORS FOR THE TURN. THE SPD RESTRICTION REFERRED TO IS 250 KTS BELOW TRANSITION ALT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.