Air carrier large transport altitude deviation excursion from clearance altitude on STAR into lax.

Attributes
ACN	147584
Time
Date	199006
Day	Wed
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : jli airport : lax
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 22600 msl bound upper : 24000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zla tower : roa
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng
Flight Phase	cruise other descent other
Route In Use	arrival star : star
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 7500
ASRS Report	147584
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 23000
ASRS Report	148067
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

After crossing jli VOR at FL240 level, ATC cleared company identify to fly the julian 2 arrival. PF read back the clearance company identify cleared to fly the julian 2 arrival, leaving 240 degrees for 16000'. No response from center negative or positive. As aircraft reached FL226 the center controller required company identify and how far or low were we descending. PF read back 16000'. Controller commented, 'you are not cleared to descend, just cleared for the arrival.' we returned immediately to FL240. P/F understood and read back clearance to fly the julian 2 arrival and descend to the next published altitude of 16000'. Supplemental information from acn 147832: none of this would have happened had the captain let me talk to company radio and the F/a's. Starting the arrival he should have been monitoring the first officer and radios.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ACR LGT ALT DEVIATION EXCURSION FROM CLRNC ALT ON STAR INTO LAX.

Narrative: AFTER XING JLI VOR AT FL240 LEVEL, ATC CLRED COMPANY IDENT TO FLY THE JULIAN 2 ARR. PF READ BACK THE CLRNC COMPANY IDENT CLRED TO FLY THE JULIAN 2 ARR, LEAVING 240 DEGS FOR 16000'. NO RESPONSE FROM CENTER NEGATIVE OR POSITIVE. AS ACFT REACHED FL226 THE CENTER CTLR REQUIRED COMPANY IDENT AND HOW FAR OR LOW WERE WE DSNDING. PF READ BACK 16000'. CTLR COMMENTED, 'YOU ARE NOT CLRED TO DSND, JUST CLRED FOR THE ARR.' WE RETURNED IMMEDIATELY TO FL240. P/F UNDERSTOOD AND READ BACK CLRNC TO FLY THE JULIAN 2 ARR AND DSND TO THE NEXT PUBLISHED ALT OF 16000'. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 147832: NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED HAD THE CAPT LET ME TALK TO COMPANY RADIO AND THE F/A'S. STARTING THE ARR HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN MONITORING THE F/O AND RADIOS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.