37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1542472 |
Time | |
Date | 201805 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801-2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | ZZZ.TRACON |
State Reference | US |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Falcon 900 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | Initial Climb |
Route In Use | Vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | First Officer Pilot Not Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) Flight Crew Instrument Flight Crew Multiengine |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 50 Flight Crew Total 5500 Flight Crew Type 400 |
Events | |
Anomaly | Deviation - Altitude Overshoot Deviation - Altitude Undershoot Deviation - Procedural Clearance Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy Inflight Event / Encounter CFTT / CFIT |
Miss Distance | Vertical 300 |
Narrative:
The pilot flying was being reacquainted with the jet after having not flown it for a while. The PIC chose to sit in the jump seat. Prior to taxi out; the PF (pilot flying) was briefed by the PNF (pilot not flying) on the departure which was runway heading until advised; initial altitude of 2000 ft; and the speed was set manual speed to 200Kts because of the class B airspace. We taxied out for departure from [the] runway. Holding short of the runway we were advised that we had a re-route for flow which was a full route re-route and clearance due to weather moving into the area and affecting the arrival/departure corridors. PNF copied all of the information down which included the [new] departure. The PF inserted it all into the FMS; and all three pilots cross checked it for accuracy on the waypoint list. The [new] departure was also runway heading until assigned and 2000 ft. The flight guidance was set in roll (rol) and takeoff mode (to) with the auto-throttles selected to engage at 400 ft. While the crew was busy re-entering the flight plan; ground was clearing other aircraft to taxi and get in line behind us. Once we advised we were ready; we were cleared onto the runway to back taxi for takeoff. As soon as we completed the 180 degree turn on the runway; tower gave us 'initial heading of 250 degrees; cleared for takeoff'. PNF set the heading bug to 250 but left the flight director in rol to avoid the PF executing an early turn prior to 400 ft AGL. At 400 ft; PNF selected heading (heading) and asked if the PF would like the flaps up. He said flaps up; so PNF transitioned the aircraft to clean wing. As we approached 2000 ft; PF selected the ap (autopilot) button on the flight guidance panel. Based on our rate of climb in to mode with auto throttles at N1 full power; the autopilot could not correct fast enough. The autopilot attempted to smoothly transition from our to pitch attitude with auto throttles holding full N1 power setting to the altitude and speed requested. The altitude selector was at 2000 ft but the altitude guidance showed 2058 ft (the altitude the autopilot was targeting). The ap attempted to arrest the climb then transition back down to 2058 ft but was unable to make the drastic change instantaneously. At this point the aircraft ballooned up to 2300 ft causing ATC to call us on the radio to say we needed to check our altitude. The PF then took off the autopilot and began to transition the aircraft back down to 2000 ft. The PIC began yelling without pause through the headset at the PF 'you got to get down'; 'you got to descend'; 'get down; get down'; 'push it over'. The PNF couldn't hear most of the radio communications coming from ATC over the PIC yelling but attempted to continue to respond to ATC's command for us to descend. The PNF attempted to give guidance to return to altitude but could not be heard over the PIC. The PIC continued to yell 'get down'. At this point; the PF pushed the yoke forward aggressively and simply followed the commands being demanded by the PIC concerned that there was a threat from another aircraft. This led to an aggravation of our situation. We then descended to 1500 ft before we leveled off once again momentarily before the PF began the climb back to 2000 ft. ATC radioed again to state that they had a low altitude alert and we should again check our altitude. Once the PF leveled off at 2000 ft and put the ap on; ATC called over the radio to give us the number to call. The PNF copied it down. We did not get a traffic alert (TCAS TA); we did not get a resolution advisory (TCAS RA); and we did not get the TCAS path target (referred to as the 'fly to' box) directing us how to avoid collision. We did not get a 'terrain' alert. We did not get an 'obstacle' alert.I understand the PF was eager to get back up to speed; but I think that we should have reconsidered doing training from this airport. The departure has a quick level off altitude and is beneath the class B airspace making it a more critical environment. We should consider not using auto throttles on a departure like this since they maintained full N1 power setting. Manually operating the throttles would give the pilot more control to arrest the climb rather than wait for the lag of the auto throttles. If auto throttles must be used; vs mode above 400 ft should be selected so the auto throttles will reduce power to respect the speed selected.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: Dassault Falcon First Officer reported that the pilot flying overshot then over-corrected the assigned altitude.
Narrative: The pilot flying was being reacquainted with the jet after having not flown it for a while. The PIC chose to sit in the jump seat. Prior to taxi out; the PF (Pilot Flying) was briefed by the PNF (Pilot Not Flying) on the departure which was runway heading until advised; initial altitude of 2000 ft; and the speed was set manual speed to 200Kts because of the Class B airspace. We taxied out for departure from [the] runway. Holding short of the runway we were advised that we had a re-route for flow which was a full route re-route and clearance due to weather moving into the area and affecting the arrival/departure corridors. PNF copied all of the information down which included the [new] departure. The PF inserted it all into the FMS; and all three pilots cross checked it for accuracy on the waypoint list. The [new] departure was also runway heading until assigned and 2000 ft. The flight guidance was set in roll (ROL) and takeoff mode (TO) with the auto-throttles selected to engage at 400 ft. While the crew was busy re-entering the flight plan; ground was clearing other aircraft to taxi and get in line behind us. Once we advised we were ready; we were cleared onto the runway to back taxi for takeoff. As soon as we completed the 180 degree turn on the runway; tower gave us 'initial heading of 250 degrees; cleared for takeoff'. PNF set the heading bug to 250 but left the flight director in ROL to avoid the PF executing an early turn prior to 400 ft AGL. At 400 ft; PNF selected HDG (Heading) and asked if the PF would like the flaps up. He said flaps up; so PNF transitioned the aircraft to clean wing. As we approached 2000 ft; PF selected the AP (Autopilot) button on the flight guidance panel. Based on our rate of climb in TO mode with auto throttles at N1 full power; the autopilot could not correct fast enough. The autopilot attempted to smoothly transition from our TO pitch attitude with auto throttles holding full N1 power setting to the altitude and speed requested. The altitude selector was at 2000 ft but the altitude guidance showed 2058 ft (the altitude the autopilot was targeting). The AP attempted to arrest the climb then transition back down to 2058 ft but was unable to make the drastic change instantaneously. At this point the aircraft ballooned up to 2300 ft causing ATC to call us on the radio to say we needed to check our altitude. The PF then took off the autopilot and began to transition the aircraft back down to 2000 ft. The PIC began yelling without pause through the headset at the PF 'you got to get down'; 'you got to descend'; 'get down; get down'; 'push it over'. The PNF couldn't hear most of the radio communications coming from ATC over the PIC yelling but attempted to continue to respond to ATC's command for us to descend. The PNF attempted to give guidance to return to altitude but could not be heard over the PIC. The PIC continued to yell 'get down'. At this point; the PF pushed the yoke forward aggressively and simply followed the commands being demanded by the PIC concerned that there was a threat from another aircraft. This led to an aggravation of our situation. We then descended to 1500 ft before we leveled off once again momentarily before the PF began the climb back to 2000 ft. ATC radioed again to state that they had a low altitude alert and we should again check our altitude. Once the PF leveled off at 2000 ft and put the AP on; ATC called over the radio to give us the number to call. The PNF copied it down. We did not get a traffic alert (TCAS TA); we did not get a resolution advisory (TCAS RA); and we did not get the TCAS Path Target (referred to as the 'fly to' box) directing us how to avoid collision. We did not get a 'terrain' alert. We did not get an 'obstacle' alert.I understand the PF was eager to get back up to speed; but I think that we should have reconsidered doing training from this airport. The departure has a quick level off altitude and is beneath the Class B airspace making it a more critical environment. We should consider not using auto throttles on a departure like this since they maintained full N1 power setting. Manually operating the throttles would give the pilot more control to arrest the climb rather than wait for the lag of the auto throttles. If auto throttles must be used; VS mode above 400 ft should be selected so the auto throttles will reduce power to respect the speed selected.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.