Narrative:

I relieved the jamestown sector controller and was told that we were put in a 'no notice' hold with ZNY for 'everything.' everything has the meaning of jfk; ewr; teb/mmu and other satellites; lga; at our sectors because those are the major airports serviced by the sector. The planes in my airspace had trouble holding at published holding patterns due to thunderstorms located in ZOB. One aircraft [carrier X] going to newark needed to hold instead at bfd. Another aircraft [carrier Y] could not hold at the published and usual holding pattern of hoxie due to weather; and furthermore was unable to accept holding at the alternate holding fix of jhw in the sector; so we ended up 'agreeing' on a jamestown hold with a 10 mile offset. I was told by my supervisor that we were holding 'indefinitely' and that 'there are zero routes available from tmu (traffic management unit) for those planes to get to new york.' I feel that new york center; by shutting off the flow of aircraft into their sectors; for every airport; when the official reason given was 'weather' but yet the 'weather' is located in cleveland center; created an unsafe situation for the airplanes where they are not allowed to deviate from their flight plans in new york but instead have no choice but to remain located closer to the actual location of the thunderstorms. This happened multiple times that particular night; week; and month. There were other incidents where airplanes were not allowed to deviate from their flight plans in new york center but then check out with cleveland center needing to avoid thunderstorm activity. Furthermore there was an unsafe situation created when the new york center supervisor called the area X supervisor and told him they could accept aircraft going to teb/mmu on 'alternate routing' when the controllers in ZNY refused to accept those airplanes. There was obviously a communication issue at ZNY relaying false information to ZOB. As a result planes got spun out of the hold and then were forced to hold at alternate locations again. This false information given to ZOB led to my decision to safely transition the aircraft out of the area of thunderstorm activity by what I considered the most appropriate means.finally; I attempted to assist the pilots by bluntly telling them 'there is no chance of you getting to new york tonight; the official plan is for you to spin in the air until you go to another destination' and 'if you want to go to white plains (hpn) you can depart your hold immediately.' furthermore I informed the pilots that 'new york center refuses to take airplanes for what is officially given as weather but there is no depicted weather in new york center' so I offered 'staffing' as an alternative reason why they are likely holding.finally; after assisting 3-4 GA aircraft and the [carrier Y] airplane leave their holding patterns in an attempt to save their valuable time as well as gas; instead of continuing to update the efc [expect further clearance] of the [carrier X] airplane every 45 minutes with an indefinite hold in place; I updated the efc of the [carrier X] to 3 hours from the present time; 'if that helps you convey to your dispatchers that you will not be going to new york tonight.'this was not an isolated occurrence; [there were numerous] dates that I recorded where thunderstorm activity impacted the safety of the system. On just the days that 'I' worked where airplanes [were] not allowed to deviate in new york center without shutting down the entire airport/airspace and instead deviate and hold in cleveland all night long increasing controller workload until the storm hits new york center and then the planes are all routed through boston center until the weather also begins impacting boston and several dates after the incident as well.this should not be anything new or controversial that I am saying. This is the official 'plan' in place told many; many times to me as an area X controller. Run airplanes through cleveland while thunderstorms are in cleveland. When storms hit new york run center; reroute airplanes through boston. When thunderstorms then reach the actual new york city airports hold the airplanes until they divert. The safety issue is why are there airplanes being routed through cleveland center while thunderstorms are in cleveland center; and why are airplanes routed around new york center when the thunderstorms reach the edges of new york center. Why the difference in 'plans?' why is it safe for airplanes to deviate in cleveland and not safe for them in new york center. My recommendation is that it is not; and that the 'plan' needs to be fixed. If the thunderstorms are in new york center; weather is a legitimate reason for them to not accept airplanes.furthermore no 'plan' in place for an airplane to be able to reach its destination should immediately require the plane to reroute; not reach the new york center boundary and then hold for hours. Furthermore; I have been specifically told I am not supposed to mention 'staffing' as a problem at new york or cleveland center. I believe this goes against the spirit and actual rules of the [reporting service]. There is a staffing problem at both cleveland as well as new york center and lying about the issue and forcing controllers to not talk about the issue will not make it go away and furthermore it is a safety issue.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ZOB ARTCC Controller reported problems associated with weather and lack of Traffic Management plans.

Narrative: I relieved the Jamestown Sector Controller and was told that we were put in a 'no notice' hold with ZNY for 'everything.' Everything has the meaning of JFK; EWR; TEB/MMU and other satellites; LGA; at our sectors because those are the major airports serviced by the sector. The planes in my airspace had trouble holding at published holding patterns due to thunderstorms located in ZOB. One aircraft [Carrier X] going to Newark needed to hold instead at BFD. Another aircraft [Carrier Y] could not hold at the published and usual holding pattern of Hoxie due to weather; and furthermore was unable to accept holding at the alternate holding fix of JHW in the sector; so we ended up 'agreeing' on a Jamestown hold with a 10 mile offset. I was told by my Supervisor that we were holding 'Indefinitely' and that 'There are zero routes available from TMU (Traffic Management Unit) for those planes to get to New York.' I feel that New York Center; by shutting off the flow of aircraft into their sectors; for every airport; when the official reason given was 'weather' but yet the 'weather' is located in Cleveland Center; created an unsafe situation for the airplanes where they are not allowed to deviate from their flight plans in New York but instead have no choice but to remain located closer to the actual location of the thunderstorms. This happened multiple times that particular night; week; and month. There were other incidents where airplanes were not allowed to deviate from their flight plans in New York Center but then check out with Cleveland Center needing to avoid thunderstorm activity. Furthermore there was an unsafe situation created when the New York Center Supervisor called the Area X Supervisor and told him they could accept aircraft going to TEB/MMU on 'alternate routing' when the Controllers in ZNY refused to accept those airplanes. There was obviously a communication issue at ZNY relaying false information to ZOB. As a result planes got spun out of the hold and then were forced to hold at alternate locations again. This false information given to ZOB led to my decision to safely transition the aircraft out of the area of thunderstorm activity by what I considered the most appropriate means.Finally; I attempted to assist the pilots by bluntly telling them 'There is no chance of you getting to New York tonight; the official plan is for you to spin in the air until you go to another destination' and 'If you want to go to White Plains (HPN) you can depart your hold immediately.' Furthermore I informed the pilots that 'New York Center refuses to take airplanes for what is officially given as weather but there is no depicted weather in New York Center' so I offered 'Staffing' as an alternative reason why they are likely holding.Finally; after assisting 3-4 GA aircraft and the [Carrier Y] airplane leave their holding patterns in an attempt to save their valuable time as well as gas; instead of continuing to update the EFC [Expect Further Clearance] of the [Carrier X] airplane every 45 minutes with an indefinite hold in place; I updated the EFC of the [Carrier X] to 3 hours from the present time; 'If that helps you convey to your dispatchers that you will not be going to New York tonight.'This was not an isolated occurrence; [there were numerous] dates that I recorded where thunderstorm activity impacted the safety of the system. On just the days that 'I' worked where airplanes [were] not allowed to deviate in New York Center without shutting down the entire airport/airspace and instead deviate and hold in Cleveland all night long increasing Controller workload until the storm hits New York Center and then the planes are all routed through Boston Center until the weather also begins impacting Boston and several dates after the incident as well.This should not be anything new or controversial that I am saying. This is the official 'plan' in place told many; many times to me as an Area X controller. Run airplanes through Cleveland while thunderstorms are in Cleveland. When storms hit New York run Center; reroute airplanes through Boston. When thunderstorms then reach the actual New York City airports hold the airplanes until they divert. The safety issue is why are there airplanes being routed through Cleveland Center while thunderstorms are in Cleveland Center; and why are airplanes routed around New York Center when the thunderstorms reach the edges of New York Center. Why the difference in 'plans?' Why is it safe for airplanes to deviate in Cleveland and not safe for them in New York Center. My recommendation is that it is not; and that the 'plan' needs to be fixed. If the thunderstorms are in New York Center; weather is a legitimate reason for them to not accept airplanes.Furthermore no 'plan' in place for an airplane to be able to reach its destination should immediately require the plane to reroute; not reach the New York Center boundary and then hold for hours. Furthermore; I have been specifically told I am not supposed to mention 'Staffing' as a problem at New York or Cleveland Center. I believe this goes against the spirit and actual rules of the [reporting service]. There is a staffing problem at both Cleveland as well as New York Center and lying about the issue and forcing controllers to not talk about the issue will not make it go away and furthermore it is a safety issue.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.