Thought ok to begin descent on a DME arc approach fmn.

Attributes
ACN	168871
Time
Date	199101
Day	Sat
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : fmn
State Reference	NM
Altitude	msl bound lower : 8500 msl bound upper : 12000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zdv
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Small Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 310 flight time total : 3550 flight time type : 500
ASRS Report	168871
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 70 flight time total : 1800 flight time type : 60
ASRS Report	168910
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

We were approaching fmn from the south on the fmn 192 degree right, heading northbound, about 20 mi out at 12000' MSL. It was my first officer's leg and I was handling the radios. I asked him to guard #1 while I contacted company to advise them of our arrival. My first officer acknowledged, 'I got one.' I monitored #1 while I contacted company. During that time, the center gave us a 030 vector to intercept the 10 DME arc. After I finished contacting company, I checked in with the first officer to make sure I hadn't missed anything. The first officer answered, '030 to intercept', after I checked in. As we were about to intercept the arc, the controller asked whether we needed a heading further to the right to intercept. I answered, 'present heading is ok, and we are presently established on the 10 DME arc.' the controller answered, 'roger.' we intercepted the 10 DME arc at about the 150 degree right, the IAF is at the 134 degree right along the arc. Upon crossing the 134 degree right we began descending to the minimum altitude published on the approach plate and upon crossing the lead right, we began turning inbound to intercept the localizer. Neither myself or my first officer stopped to confirm as to whether we had been cleared for the approach prior to descent. We continued to brief the minimum altitudes on the approach before and at the IAF on the arc. While beginning the turn inbound to the localizer from the arc, the controller asked for my altitude. I responded '9000'. He responded, 'I didn't clear you for the approach. Turn right to 270, vectors for the ILS. I have a cpr aircraft departing farmington.' he gave me another turn to intercept the localizer and cleared us for the ILS 25. Nothing further transpired after that. I feel that I could have confirmed at least 3-5 mins prior to the IAF that we were cleared for the approach with my first officer and questioned myself as to whether I remembered hearing an approach clearance from the controller. If either one resulted in any doubt I should've queried the controller and requested a clearance limit and an efc time and slowed to under 175 KIAS.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: THOUGHT OK TO BEGIN DESCENT ON A DME ARC APCH FMN.

Narrative: WE WERE APCHING FMN FROM THE S ON THE FMN 192 DEG R, HDG NBND, ABOUT 20 MI OUT AT 12000' MSL. IT WAS MY F/O'S LEG AND I WAS HANDLING THE RADIOS. I ASKED HIM TO GUARD #1 WHILE I CONTACTED COMPANY TO ADVISE THEM OF OUR ARR. MY F/O ACKNOWLEDGED, 'I GOT ONE.' I MONITORED #1 WHILE I CONTACTED COMPANY. DURING THAT TIME, THE CTR GAVE US A 030 VECTOR TO INTERCEPT THE 10 DME ARC. AFTER I FINISHED CONTACTING COMPANY, I CHKED IN WITH THE F/O TO MAKE SURE I HADN'T MISSED ANYTHING. THE F/O ANSWERED, '030 TO INTERCEPT', AFTER I CHKED IN. AS WE WERE ABOUT TO INTERCEPT THE ARC, THE CTLR ASKED WHETHER WE NEEDED A HDG FURTHER TO THE R TO INTERCEPT. I ANSWERED, 'PRESENT HDG IS OK, AND WE ARE PRESENTLY ESTABLISHED ON THE 10 DME ARC.' THE CTLR ANSWERED, 'ROGER.' WE INTERCEPTED THE 10 DME ARC AT ABOUT THE 150 DEG R, THE IAF IS AT THE 134 DEG R ALONG THE ARC. UPON XING THE 134 DEG R WE BEGAN DSNDING TO THE MINIMUM ALT PUBLISHED ON THE APCH PLATE AND UPON XING THE LEAD R, WE BEGAN TURNING INBND TO INTERCEPT THE LOC. NEITHER MYSELF OR MY F/O STOPPED TO CONFIRM AS TO WHETHER WE HAD BEEN CLRED FOR THE APCH PRIOR TO DSNT. WE CONTINUED TO BRIEF THE MINIMUM ALTS ON THE APCH BEFORE AND AT THE IAF ON THE ARC. WHILE BEGINNING THE TURN INBND TO THE LOC FROM THE ARC, THE CTLR ASKED FOR MY ALT. I RESPONDED '9000'. HE RESPONDED, 'I DIDN'T CLR YOU FOR THE APCH. TURN R TO 270, VECTORS FOR THE ILS. I HAVE A CPR ACFT DEPARTING FARMINGTON.' HE GAVE ME ANOTHER TURN TO INTERCEPT THE LOC AND CLRED US FOR THE ILS 25. NOTHING FURTHER TRANSPIRED AFTER THAT. I FEEL THAT I COULD HAVE CONFIRMED AT LEAST 3-5 MINS PRIOR TO THE IAF THAT WE WERE CLRED FOR THE APCH WITH MY F/O AND QUESTIONED MYSELF AS TO WHETHER I REMEMBERED HEARING AN APCH CLRNC FROM THE CTLR. IF EITHER ONE RESULTED IN ANY DOUBT I SHOULD'VE QUERIED THE CTLR AND REQUESTED A CLRNC LIMIT AND AN EFC TIME AND SLOWED TO UNDER 175 KIAS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.