37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 169017 |
Time | |
Date | 199101 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : gep airport : msp |
State Reference | MN |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 5300 msl bound upper : 10000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : msp |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | approach : visual enroute : on vectors enroute airway : msp |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 5700 |
ASRS Report | 169017 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 9975 flight time type : 4100 |
ASRS Report | 169157 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | faa : investigated faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Deviation |
Narrative:
I was flying the aircraft and my first officer was acting as the PNF. We were approaching the mso area on the dayle arrival. Just as we past exact intersection msp center turned us over to msp approach control. On the initial contact to approach, first officer gave them the ATIS and gate information. Their response was, 'after gopher VOR fly heading 130 degrees for visibility to runway 29R.' we acknowledged. This was not our runway or preference, but the area had moderate arrival traffic, so we accepted west/O further comment. After passing the VOR and turning to the heading, we were cleared to 7000' (we had been level at 10000'). Again, we acknowledged. About the time we were leveling at 7000', the controller told us to slow to 170 KTS after leveling at 4000'. Again we acknowledged. After giving instructions to a few other aircraft, the controller then told us to turn to a heading of 240 degrees. First officer and I both moved our heading bugs to the new heading as he acknowledged. At this point first officer and I thought that maybe there was going to be a runway change to the 11's or vectors to runway 29L. We are now about 10-12 mi from the airport headed toward what appeared to be a base leg for the 11's (the wind was 190-8 KTS). But before we could get a transmission to the controller, he called and said, 'say your heading.' first officer responded with 240 degrees as assigned. I then picked up the microphone and said 'what heading do you want?' he responded with, 'that one is ok.' a new voice took over the controller position. He told us to maintain 6000'. We replied that we were passing 5300' and to verify that they now want us to maintain 6000'. I stopped the descent and climbed back to 6000'. I also turned on all of our landing lights and scanned the area for any traffic. I then asked what speed he wanted, his response was 'whatever you have is fine.' we were then vectored around the airport to a left downwind for runway 29L. Cleared for a visibility approach to runway 29L. I called approach control on the telephone to discuss what had transpired. I talked with a supervisor, he told me that there would be an investigation to see who 'screwed up.' I told him my story briefly and then had to excuse myself to continue with my trip. I called him again when I arrived at the overnight station. He told me he had listened to the tapes and had confirmed my story. He also said that the operating controller had been decertified. I asked him if there had been any conflict with any other traffic or airspace, and he said 'no'. Supplemental information from acn 169157. I think the controller had us confused with another aircraft that was on an extended right downwind, and thought he was turning him on final and slowing him to 170 KTS.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: APCH CTLR CLEARS WRONG ACFT TO LOWER ALT JUST AFTER PASSING GEP VOR, ALSO SLOWS ACFT DOWN. SECOND CTLR STRAIGHTENED OUT THE PROBLEM.
Narrative: I WAS FLYING THE ACFT AND MY F/O WAS ACTING AS THE PNF. WE WERE APCHING THE MSO AREA ON THE DAYLE ARR. JUST AS WE PAST EXACT INTXN MSP CTR TURNED US OVER TO MSP APCH CTL. ON THE INITIAL CONTACT TO APCH, F/O GAVE THEM THE ATIS AND GATE INFO. THEIR RESPONSE WAS, 'AFTER GOPHER VOR FLY HDG 130 DEGS FOR VIS TO RWY 29R.' WE ACKNOWLEDGED. THIS WAS NOT OUR RWY OR PREFERENCE, BUT THE AREA HAD MODERATE ARR TFC, SO WE ACCEPTED W/O FURTHER COMMENT. AFTER PASSING THE VOR AND TURNING TO THE HDG, WE WERE CLRED TO 7000' (WE HAD BEEN LEVEL AT 10000'). AGAIN, WE ACKNOWLEDGED. ABOUT THE TIME WE WERE LEVELING AT 7000', THE CTLR TOLD US TO SLOW TO 170 KTS AFTER LEVELING AT 4000'. AGAIN WE ACKNOWLEDGED. AFTER GIVING INSTRUCTIONS TO A FEW OTHER ACFT, THE CTLR THEN TOLD US TO TURN TO A HDG OF 240 DEGS. F/O AND I BOTH MOVED OUR HDG BUGS TO THE NEW HDG AS HE ACKNOWLEDGED. AT THIS POINT F/O AND I THOUGHT THAT MAYBE THERE WAS GOING TO BE A RWY CHANGE TO THE 11'S OR VECTORS TO RWY 29L. WE ARE NOW ABOUT 10-12 MI FROM THE ARPT HEADED TOWARD WHAT APPEARED TO BE A BASE LEG FOR THE 11'S (THE WIND WAS 190-8 KTS). BUT BEFORE WE COULD GET A XMISSION TO THE CTLR, HE CALLED AND SAID, 'SAY YOUR HDG.' F/O RESPONDED WITH 240 DEGS AS ASSIGNED. I THEN PICKED UP THE MIC AND SAID 'WHAT HDG DO YOU WANT?' HE RESPONDED WITH, 'THAT ONE IS OK.' A NEW VOICE TOOK OVER THE CTLR POS. HE TOLD US TO MAINTAIN 6000'. WE REPLIED THAT WE WERE PASSING 5300' AND TO VERIFY THAT THEY NOW WANT US TO MAINTAIN 6000'. I STOPPED THE DSNT AND CLBED BACK TO 6000'. I ALSO TURNED ON ALL OF OUR LNDG LIGHTS AND SCANNED THE AREA FOR ANY TFC. I THEN ASKED WHAT SPD HE WANTED, HIS RESPONSE WAS 'WHATEVER YOU HAVE IS FINE.' WE WERE THEN VECTORED AROUND THE ARPT TO A L DOWNWIND FOR RWY 29L. CLRED FOR A VIS APCH TO RWY 29L. I CALLED APCH CTL ON THE TELEPHONE TO DISCUSS WHAT HAD TRANSPIRED. I TALKED WITH A SUPVR, HE TOLD ME THAT THERE WOULD BE AN INVESTIGATION TO SEE WHO 'SCREWED UP.' I TOLD HIM MY STORY BRIEFLY AND THEN HAD TO EXCUSE MYSELF TO CONTINUE WITH MY TRIP. I CALLED HIM AGAIN WHEN I ARRIVED AT THE OVERNIGHT STATION. HE TOLD ME HE HAD LISTENED TO THE TAPES AND HAD CONFIRMED MY STORY. HE ALSO SAID THAT THE OPERATING CTLR HAD BEEN DECERTIFIED. I ASKED HIM IF THERE HAD BEEN ANY CONFLICT WITH ANY OTHER TFC OR AIRSPACE, AND HE SAID 'NO'. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 169157. I THINK THE CTLR HAD US CONFUSED WITH ANOTHER ACFT THAT WAS ON AN EXTENDED R DOWNWIND, AND THOUGHT HE WAS TURNING HIM ON FINAL AND SLOWING HIM TO 170 KTS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.