Large transport told they had crossed runway hold lines without clearance.

Attributes
ACN	169943
Time
Date	199102
Day	Thu
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : mke
State Reference	WI
Altitude	agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Night
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng
Flight Phase	ground other : taxi
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 25000 flight time type : 10000
ASRS Report	169943
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial
Events
Anomaly	incursion : runway
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	none taken : detected after the fact
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Airport
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation
Situations
Airport	other physical facility

Narrative:

Passed hold line. Did not move onto runway. The hold short lines for this runway are difficult to see, as they are placed in an unusual position in relation to the end of the runway. Due to the airport design, they need to be marked better. We were looking for them and still missed them. Although I had not visited the airport for some time, the markings are difficult to find. Also, ground control could have said something a couple of seconds earlier. They waited until we were passing the marks. I believe there were only 2 aircraft moving at the time. Although no dangerous situation in this case, the poor markings could lead to one under different conditions. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following: reporter states that as they taxied toward runway 19R on taxiway G, although they expressly watched for the runway hold lines, they could not find them. They passed them, turned the corner and the tower said something like, 'oh, I see you have already passed the hold lines.' reporter added that all 3 men in the cockpit were looking and never saw signs or lines.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: LGT TOLD THEY HAD CROSSED RWY HOLD LINES WITHOUT CLRNC.

Narrative: PASSED HOLD LINE. DID NOT MOVE ONTO RWY. THE HOLD SHORT LINES FOR THIS RWY ARE DIFFICULT TO SEE, AS THEY ARE PLACED IN AN UNUSUAL POS IN RELATION TO THE END OF THE RWY. DUE TO THE ARPT DESIGN, THEY NEED TO BE MARKED BETTER. WE WERE LOOKING FOR THEM AND STILL MISSED THEM. ALTHOUGH I HAD NOT VISITED THE ARPT FOR SOME TIME, THE MARKINGS ARE DIFFICULT TO FIND. ALSO, GND CTL COULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING A COUPLE OF SECS EARLIER. THEY WAITED UNTIL WE WERE PASSING THE MARKS. I BELIEVE THERE WERE ONLY 2 ACFT MOVING AT THE TIME. ALTHOUGH NO DANGEROUS SITUATION IN THIS CASE, THE POOR MARKINGS COULD LEAD TO ONE UNDER DIFFERENT CONDITIONS. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING: RPTR STATES THAT AS THEY TAXIED TOWARD RWY 19R ON TXWY G, ALTHOUGH THEY EXPRESSLY WATCHED FOR THE RWY HOLD LINES, THEY COULD NOT FIND THEM. THEY PASSED THEM, TURNED THE CORNER AND THE TWR SAID SOMETHING LIKE, 'OH, I SEE YOU HAVE ALREADY PASSED THE HOLD LINES.' RPTR ADDED THAT ALL 3 MEN IN THE COCKPIT WERE LOOKING AND NEVER SAW SIGNS OR LINES.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.