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Widebody transport captain questions the legality of an 8:30 flight with a stop when operating with two pilots and another flight crew member.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 175533 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199103 |
| Day | Sun |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : gfk |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 4 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 190 flight time total : 18000 flight time type : 1400 |
| ASRS Report | 175533 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
As captain of flight from hnl to lax and on to stl, I questioned the legality of flying a scheduled 8:30 mins west/O an international relief officer or some sort of relief. We left hnl at approximately XXXX am based on my home domicile of jfk. We arrived in lax early on lax time, had slightly over 1 1/2 hours on the ground, and was scheduled to fly to stl. The local departure time in lax was XXXX and we arrived in stl at XXXX pm. While on the ground in lax I called the pilot scheduler and was referred to operational planning. They thought it was legal but had to confer with other planners. I contended that flying from lax to stl was a domestic leg and that I should not fly more than 8 hours west/O relief or break of some sort. They stated they thought it was considered international flying and it was ok. I finally said I would fly the leg to stl under protest and signed the flight clearance to that effect. All 3 of us were very fatigued upon arrival at stl. The flts were scheduled hnl to lax 5:06 lax to stl 3:24.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: WDB CAPT QUESTIONS THE LEGALITY OF AN 8:30 FLT WITH A STOP WHEN OPERATING WITH TWO PLTS AND ANOTHER FLT CREW MEMBER.
Narrative: AS CAPT OF FLT FROM HNL TO LAX AND ON TO STL, I QUESTIONED THE LEGALITY OF FLYING A SCHEDULED 8:30 MINS W/O AN IRO OR SOME SORT OF RELIEF. WE LEFT HNL AT APPROX XXXX AM BASED ON MY HOME DOMICILE OF JFK. WE ARRIVED IN LAX EARLY ON LAX TIME, HAD SLIGHTLY OVER 1 1/2 HRS ON THE GND, AND WAS SCHEDULED TO FLY TO STL. THE LCL DEP TIME IN LAX WAS XXXX AND WE ARRIVED IN STL AT XXXX PM. WHILE ON THE GND IN LAX I CALLED THE PLT SCHEDULER AND WAS REFERRED TO OPERATIONAL PLANNING. THEY THOUGHT IT WAS LEGAL BUT HAD TO CONFER WITH OTHER PLANNERS. I CONTENDED THAT FLYING FROM LAX TO STL WAS A DOMESTIC LEG AND THAT I SHOULD NOT FLY MORE THAN 8 HRS W/O RELIEF OR BREAK OF SOME SORT. THEY STATED THEY THOUGHT IT WAS CONSIDERED INTL FLYING AND IT WAS OK. I FINALLY SAID I WOULD FLY THE LEG TO STL UNDER PROTEST AND SIGNED THE FLT CLRNC TO THAT EFFECT. ALL 3 OF US WERE VERY FATIGUED UPON ARR AT STL. THE FLTS WERE SCHEDULED HNL TO LAX 5:06 LAX TO STL 3:24.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.