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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 181530 |
Time | |
Date | 199106 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sna |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 300 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : sna |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff ground : holding |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 11900 flight time type : 280 |
ASRS Report | 181530 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 2000 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
On ILS final approach sna 19R. About 4 mi out tower cleared air carrier Y into position and hold 19R. (Tight but should work I thought.) then tower cleared small aircraft aircraft for intersection takeoff 19R (ahead of holding air carrier) with right turn out. Now it was deteriorating rapidly. Small aircraft taking off 19R with right turn, small aircraft using 19L with left traffic, air carrier Y still holding our runway for straight out and we were down to 600 ft 2 mi final. 'This is getting much too tight', I told the captain. 1-1/2 mi final tower clears air carrier Y for immediate takeoff. 'We've got to go around', I told captain. 'We've got no place to go', he replied, meaning airspace ahead was too crowded. 'It will be safer to land'. At that point we were down to about 75 ft, no more time for discussion. Decision made to land by captain. Air carrier ahead on takeoff had progressed about 1000 ft down runway. At about 20 ft we hit his very fresh jet exhaust and out aircraft wanted to float badly in hot rapidly moving air. I had to go forward with yoke to force aircraft down onto runway as air carrier Y on takeoff lifted off about 2000 ft ahead of us. Nothing was said about incident on frequency but after arriving at gate captain called tower on telephone and learned supervisor in tower watched whole sequence, and was upset that supervisor didn't step in and correct situation. Immediately after we landed supervisor relieved tower controller for debrief. If we had gone around supervisor said was going to abort takeoff of other air carrier. I don't see any good solutions to this problem once it developed as far as it had when air carrier on runway was cleared for takeoff. Our continuing to land was hazardous and a go around would have been hazardous. Our best chance to 'bail out' would have been to go around when small aircraft aircraft was cleared for takeoff with air carrier holding on 19R. At that time we both knew this was going to be a tight one!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: VERY CLOSE PROX BTWN LNDG ACR AND ACR DEPARTING SAME RWY. OPERATIONAL ERROR AND OR PLT DEV.
Narrative: ON ILS FINAL APCH SNA 19R. ABOUT 4 MI OUT TWR CLRED ACR Y INTO POS AND HOLD 19R. (TIGHT BUT SHOULD WORK I THOUGHT.) THEN TWR CLRED SMA ACFT FOR INTXN TKOF 19R (AHEAD OF HOLDING AIR CARRIER) WITH R TURN OUT. NOW IT WAS DETERIORATING RAPIDLY. SMA TAKING OFF 19R WITH R TURN, SMA USING 19L WITH L TFC, ACR Y STILL HOLDING OUR RWY FOR STRAIGHT OUT AND WE WERE DOWN TO 600 FT 2 MI FINAL. 'THIS IS GETTING MUCH TOO TIGHT', I TOLD THE CAPT. 1-1/2 MI FINAL TWR CLRS ACR Y FOR IMMEDIATE TKOF. 'WE'VE GOT TO GAR', I TOLD CAPT. 'WE'VE GOT NO PLACE TO GO', HE REPLIED, MEANING AIRSPACE AHEAD WAS TOO CROWDED. 'IT WILL BE SAFER TO LAND'. AT THAT POINT WE WERE DOWN TO ABOUT 75 FT, NO MORE TIME FOR DISCUSSION. DECISION MADE TO LAND BY CAPT. AIR CARRIER AHEAD ON TKOF HAD PROGRESSED ABOUT 1000 FT DOWN RWY. AT ABOUT 20 FT WE HIT HIS VERY FRESH JET EXHAUST AND OUT ACFT WANTED TO FLOAT BADLY IN HOT RAPIDLY MOVING AIR. I HAD TO GO FORWARD WITH YOKE TO FORCE ACFT DOWN ONTO RWY AS ACR Y ON TKOF LIFTED OFF ABOUT 2000 FT AHEAD OF US. NOTHING WAS SAID ABOUT INCIDENT ON FREQ BUT AFTER ARRIVING AT GATE CAPT CALLED TWR ON TELEPHONE AND LEARNED SUPVR IN TWR WATCHED WHOLE SEQUENCE, AND WAS UPSET THAT SUPVR DIDN'T STEP IN AND CORRECT SITUATION. IMMEDIATELY AFTER WE LANDED SUPVR RELIEVED TWR CTLR FOR DEBRIEF. IF WE HAD GONE AROUND SUPVR SAID WAS GOING TO ABORT TKOF OF OTHER AIR CARRIER. I DON'T SEE ANY GOOD SOLUTIONS TO THIS PROBLEM ONCE IT DEVELOPED AS FAR AS IT HAD WHEN AIR CARRIER ON RWY WAS CLRED FOR TKOF. OUR CONTINUING TO LAND WAS HAZARDOUS AND A GAR WOULD HAVE BEEN HAZARDOUS. OUR BEST CHANCE TO 'BAIL OUT' WOULD HAVE BEEN TO GAR WHEN SMA ACFT WAS CLRED FOR TKOF WITH AIR CARRIER HOLDING ON 19R. AT THAT TIME WE BOTH KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO BE A TIGHT ONE!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.