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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 187317 |
Time | |
Date | 199108 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : jfk |
State Reference | NY |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90 |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent other landing other other |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 130 flight time total : 9500 flight time type : 600 |
ASRS Report | 187317 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Flight was operating on a rerelease flight plan from egcc-kjfk. The rerelease point was pqi at which time we had over 2000 pounds more fuel than required, so we continued to destination. Upon arrival at trait intersection, we were put in holding and subsequently descended in the stack. We kept close watch on our fuel and advised ny that we would soon have to go to our alternate. Our efc time was also our divert time, but ny told us there would be no further delay. We were taken out of holding and headed toward jfk, but they started vectoring us again. Since the WX was good and our alternate was ewr we decided to continue for the moment, but we did declare min fuel. The vectoring continued and they tried to take us to cri for a VOR 13 approach. We asked for vectors to the final for runway 4 and got it so we continued to jfk. We landed 2500 pounds below our normal min. Ever since air carrier crashed at jfk, there has been a heightened awareness of fuel levels, but jfk doesn't seem to have learned much. I realize they are very busy, but if an aircraft has declared min fuel, the controllers should be straight with them. If the WX is good and there are no other obvious problems, the pilots have to rely on what they are told. No delays means you go straight to the airport, not you will get vectored all over the sky and cover an extra 80-100 mi on the way. You should also expect to go to the closest available runway, not the farthest (ATIS said both 13 and 4 were active for arrs). At all points in this approach, we discussed our own points at which we would divert. The controllers kept barely making our mins but then would delay our progress toward our next min. I realize 'min fuel' is not an emergency, but it is indicative of a pending emergency and should be handled in an expeditious manner with full disclosure to the crew.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC OF ACR LGT CLAIM THEY DID NOT GET THE EXPEDITED CLRNC THEY EXPECTED AFTER ADVISING ATC 'THEY WOULD SOON HAVE TO GO TO THEIR ALTERNATE.'
Narrative: FLT WAS OPERATING ON A RERELEASE FLT PLAN FROM EGCC-KJFK. THE RERELEASE POINT WAS PQI AT WHICH TIME WE HAD OVER 2000 POUNDS MORE FUEL THAN REQUIRED, SO WE CONTINUED TO DEST. UPON ARR AT TRAIT INTXN, WE WERE PUT IN HOLDING AND SUBSEQUENTLY DSNDED IN THE STACK. WE KEPT CLOSE WATCH ON OUR FUEL AND ADVISED NY THAT WE WOULD SOON HAVE TO GO TO OUR ALTERNATE. OUR EFC TIME WAS ALSO OUR DIVERT TIME, BUT NY TOLD US THERE WOULD BE NO FURTHER DELAY. WE WERE TAKEN OUT OF HOLDING AND HEADED TOWARD JFK, BUT THEY STARTED VECTORING US AGAIN. SINCE THE WX WAS GOOD AND OUR ALTERNATE WAS EWR WE DECIDED TO CONTINUE FOR THE MOMENT, BUT WE DID DECLARE MIN FUEL. THE VECTORING CONTINUED AND THEY TRIED TO TAKE US TO CRI FOR A VOR 13 APCH. WE ASKED FOR VECTORS TO THE FINAL FOR RWY 4 AND GOT IT SO WE CONTINUED TO JFK. WE LANDED 2500 POUNDS BELOW OUR NORMAL MIN. EVER SINCE ACR CRASHED AT JFK, THERE HAS BEEN A HEIGHTENED AWARENESS OF FUEL LEVELS, BUT JFK DOESN'T SEEM TO HAVE LEARNED MUCH. I REALIZE THEY ARE VERY BUSY, BUT IF AN ACFT HAS DECLARED MIN FUEL, THE CTLRS SHOULD BE STRAIGHT WITH THEM. IF THE WX IS GOOD AND THERE ARE NO OTHER OBVIOUS PROBLEMS, THE PLTS HAVE TO RELY ON WHAT THEY ARE TOLD. NO DELAYS MEANS YOU GO STRAIGHT TO THE ARPT, NOT YOU WILL GET VECTORED ALL OVER THE SKY AND COVER AN EXTRA 80-100 MI ON THE WAY. YOU SHOULD ALSO EXPECT TO GO TO THE CLOSEST AVAILABLE RWY, NOT THE FARTHEST (ATIS SAID BOTH 13 AND 4 WERE ACTIVE FOR ARRS). AT ALL POINTS IN THIS APCH, WE DISCUSSED OUR OWN POINTS AT WHICH WE WOULD DIVERT. THE CTLRS KEPT BARELY MAKING OUR MINS BUT THEN WOULD DELAY OUR PROGRESS TOWARD OUR NEXT MIN. I REALIZE 'MIN FUEL' IS NOT AN EMER, BUT IT IS INDICATIVE OF A PENDING EMER AND SHOULD BE HANDLED IN AN EXPEDITIOUS MANNER WITH FULL DISCLOSURE TO THE CREW.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.