37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 212980 |
Time | |
Date | 199206 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : ord |
State Reference | IL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 5000 msl bound upper : 6200 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : ord |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude cruise other |
Route In Use | departure sid : sid |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 212980 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 300 |
ASRS Report | 213052 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Received clearance from ord clearance delivery. Copied down 9000 ft on initial altitude instead of 5000 ft. Responded only with squawk code as required. On taxi out to runway 4L, was routed to approach 4L from the northwest. When #1 to takeoff, tower controller advised us that there was a problem with our clearance and we should taxi across 4L into the penalty box. We complied. Upon entering penalty box, I called our dispatch and asked if there was any problem with our clearance that he was aware of. He said he'd work on it from his end. After 2-3 min tower called and advised us to taxi to 4L using inner old scenic. The captain and myself completed another before takeoff checklist and discussed our departure again. He said runway heading cleared to 5000. I said we were cleared to 9000 ft. He said when did that happen? I stated the controller gave it to us that way. Upon takeoff, we were not turned over to the departure controller until we were 3500-4000 ft. The captain made the initial call to departure and stated climbing to 9000 ft. The controller rogered the call. Approximately 5800 ft the controller stated stop your climb at 6000 ft. An immediate pushover followed and we went up to 6200 ft, then descended back to 6000 ft. It was then that we learned of the altitude problem. The controller then followed with cleared to bae. We informed him bae wasn't on our flight plan and his response was somewhat dismayed. Indicating that ord hadn't bothered to tell them we were coming or tell us of our change in route. How the problem arose: during flight plan clearance, I copied 9000 ft. Captain copied 5000 ft. I still don't know who was right. Contributing factors: rapid fire release of clearance. No requirement to read back full clearance. A great deal of confusion during the pre-departure phase caused by ground controller in coordinating our release. This caused much concern on our part as well as confusion. I find ord to be an absolute nightmare to work in and around. They talk extremely fast and if you ask them to repeat anything, you are treated as a moron and at times verbally bashed on the radio. Their confusion in this case caused confusion within the cockpit which resulted in an altitude fly through. There was a coordination problem within ord ATC/ground/tower/departure. They didn't 'have their act together' which resulted in letting an a go flying without a full clearance (they had changed it). Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter said that an example of 'verbal bashing' would be a controller implying that if you can't keep up with the rapid fire clrncs, you can't play in this league. He defended his choice to demand that he have the clearance straight before accepting it.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LGT WAS CLRED TO 5000 FT, THOUGHT 9000 FT. ALTDEV.
Narrative: RECEIVED CLRNC FROM ORD CLRNC DELIVERY. COPIED DOWN 9000 FT ON INITIAL ALT INSTEAD OF 5000 FT. RESPONDED ONLY WITH SQUAWK CODE AS REQUIRED. ON TAXI OUT TO RWY 4L, WAS ROUTED TO APCH 4L FROM THE NW. WHEN #1 TO TKOF, TWR CTLR ADVISED US THAT THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH OUR CLRNC AND WE SHOULD TAXI ACROSS 4L INTO THE PENALTY BOX. WE COMPLIED. UPON ENTERING PENALTY BOX, I CALLED OUR DISPATCH AND ASKED IF THERE WAS ANY PROBLEM WITH OUR CLRNC THAT HE WAS AWARE OF. HE SAID HE'D WORK ON IT FROM HIS END. AFTER 2-3 MIN TWR CALLED AND ADVISED US TO TAXI TO 4L USING INNER OLD SCENIC. THE CAPT AND MYSELF COMPLETED ANOTHER BEFORE TKOF CHKLIST AND DISCUSSED OUR DEP AGAIN. HE SAID RWY HDG CLRED TO 5000. I SAID WE WERE CLRED TO 9000 FT. HE SAID WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN? I STATED THE CTLR GAVE IT TO US THAT WAY. UPON TKOF, WE WERE NOT TURNED OVER TO THE DEP CTLR UNTIL WE WERE 3500-4000 FT. THE CAPT MADE THE INITIAL CALL TO DEP AND STATED CLBING TO 9000 FT. THE CTLR ROGERED THE CALL. APPROX 5800 FT THE CTLR STATED STOP YOUR CLB AT 6000 FT. AN IMMEDIATE PUSHOVER FOLLOWED AND WE WENT UP TO 6200 FT, THEN DSNDED BACK TO 6000 FT. IT WAS THEN THAT WE LEARNED OF THE ALT PROBLEM. THE CTLR THEN FOLLOWED WITH CLRED TO BAE. WE INFORMED HIM BAE WASN'T ON OUR FLT PLAN AND HIS RESPONSE WAS SOMEWHAT DISMAYED. INDICATING THAT ORD HADN'T BOTHERED TO TELL THEM WE WERE COMING OR TELL US OF OUR CHANGE IN RTE. HOW THE PROBLEM AROSE: DURING FLT PLAN CLRNC, I COPIED 9000 FT. CAPT COPIED 5000 FT. I STILL DON'T KNOW WHO WAS RIGHT. CONTRIBUTING FACTORS: RAPID FIRE RELEASE OF CLRNC. NO REQUIREMENT TO READ BACK FULL CLRNC. A GREAT DEAL OF CONFUSION DURING THE PRE-DEP PHASE CAUSED BY GND CTLR IN COORDINATING OUR RELEASE. THIS CAUSED MUCH CONCERN ON OUR PART AS WELL AS CONFUSION. I FIND ORD TO BE AN ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE TO WORK IN AND AROUND. THEY TALK EXTREMELY FAST AND IF YOU ASK THEM TO REPEAT ANYTHING, YOU ARE TREATED AS A MORON AND AT TIMES VERBALLY BASHED ON THE RADIO. THEIR CONFUSION IN THIS CASE CAUSED CONFUSION WITHIN THE COCKPIT WHICH RESULTED IN AN ALT FLY THROUGH. THERE WAS A COORD PROBLEM WITHIN ORD ATC/GND/TWR/DEP. THEY DIDN'T 'HAVE THEIR ACT TOGETHER' WHICH RESULTED IN LETTING AN A GO FLYING WITHOUT A FULL CLRNC (THEY HAD CHANGED IT). CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR SAID THAT AN EXAMPLE OF 'VERBAL BASHING' WOULD BE A CTLR IMPLYING THAT IF YOU CAN'T KEEP UP WITH THE RAPID FIRE CLRNCS, YOU CAN'T PLAY IN THIS LEAGUE. HE DEFENDED HIS CHOICE TO DEMAND THAT HE HAVE THE CLRNC STRAIGHT BEFORE ACCEPTING IT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.