37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 212993 |
Time | |
Date | 199206 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lga |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 3000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90 tower : lga |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing : go around |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 152 flight time total : 12209 flight time type : 1532 |
ASRS Report | 212993 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe inflight encounter : weather other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | vertical : 500 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Approach control asked if we wanted a river visual to runway 13. We responded yes. The ILS 13 and river visual were reviewed and briefed. Approach control cleared us river visual to 13 to maintain 3000 ft. They said to maintain 3000 until north of the park and they cited traffic at 2 O'clock to us at either 2000 or 2500 ft. We acknowledged the maintain 3000 but we did not have the traffic. The traffic responded to approach that they were descending to 1500 ft. Approach control made no further mention of the traffic to us. We configured to flaps 20 and slowed to 180 KTS in preparation for descent from 3000 when we passed the park. We were transferred to la guardia tower. Out on final inside the marker at 2000 ft, the TCASII advisory immediately sounded with an alert resolution that commanded a level off and climb. I immediately arrested my descent and actually climbed back to 2200 ft before the TCASII alert was resolved. We were too high then for a visual approach so we were cleared by tower for a visual to 22 with left turns to base. When tower was advised of the alert with TCASII, they acknowledged that it was the 1500 ft traffic previously reported to us and since it was being worked by approach they did not consider it a traffic conflict. During the level off and subsequent climb I saw traffic passing below and to our right. I assumed that as long as we had maintained 3000 ft until north of the park that there would not be a traffic conflict. I feel that except for the TCASII advisory this could have possibly been at best a close traffic conflict. I feel that we were correct in responding to the TCASII advisory but should have either requested confirmation of separation from the tower or approach of the reported traffic. It would also helped had there been more communication between tower and approach on the status of our traffic. The basic lesson here is never assume. In the absence of further reports from tower or approach on the status of our traffic we should have aggressively sought this information and requested traffic separation from the controling agencies.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: POTENTIAL CONFLICT.
Narrative: APCH CTL ASKED IF WE WANTED A RIVER VISUAL TO RWY 13. WE RESPONDED YES. THE ILS 13 AND RIVER VISUAL WERE REVIEWED AND BRIEFED. APCH CTL CLRED US RIVER VISUAL TO 13 TO MAINTAIN 3000 FT. THEY SAID TO MAINTAIN 3000 UNTIL N OF THE PARK AND THEY CITED TFC AT 2 O'CLOCK TO US AT EITHER 2000 OR 2500 FT. WE ACKNOWLEDGED THE MAINTAIN 3000 BUT WE DID NOT HAVE THE TFC. THE TFC RESPONDED TO APCH THAT THEY WERE DSNDING TO 1500 FT. APCH CTL MADE NO FURTHER MENTION OF THE TFC TO US. WE CONFIGURED TO FLAPS 20 AND SLOWED TO 180 KTS IN PREPARATION FOR DSCNT FROM 3000 WHEN WE PASSED THE PARK. WE WERE TRANSFERRED TO LA GUARDIA TWR. OUT ON FINAL INSIDE THE MARKER AT 2000 FT, THE TCASII ADVISORY IMMEDIATELY SOUNDED WITH AN ALERT RESOLUTION THAT COMMANDED A LEVEL OFF AND CLB. I IMMEDIATELY ARRESTED MY DSCNT AND ACTUALLY CLBED BACK TO 2200 FT BEFORE THE TCASII ALERT WAS RESOLVED. WE WERE TOO HIGH THEN FOR A VISUAL APCH SO WE WERE CLRED BY TWR FOR A VISUAL TO 22 WITH L TURNS TO BASE. WHEN TWR WAS ADVISED OF THE ALERT WITH TCASII, THEY ACKNOWLEDGED THAT IT WAS THE 1500 FT TFC PREVIOUSLY RPTED TO US AND SINCE IT WAS BEING WORKED BY APCH THEY DID NOT CONSIDER IT A TFC CONFLICT. DURING THE LEVEL OFF AND SUBSEQUENT CLB I SAW TFC PASSING BELOW AND TO OUR R. I ASSUMED THAT AS LONG AS WE HAD MAINTAINED 3000 FT UNTIL N OF THE PARK THAT THERE WOULD NOT BE A TFC CONFLICT. I FEEL THAT EXCEPT FOR THE TCASII ADVISORY THIS COULD HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN AT BEST A CLOSE TFC CONFLICT. I FEEL THAT WE WERE CORRECT IN RESPONDING TO THE TCASII ADVISORY BUT SHOULD HAVE EITHER REQUESTED CONFIRMATION OF SEPARATION FROM THE TWR OR APCH OF THE RPTED TFC. IT WOULD ALSO HELPED HAD THERE BEEN MORE COM BTWN TWR AND APCH ON THE STATUS OF OUR TFC. THE BASIC LESSON HERE IS NEVER ASSUME. IN THE ABSENCE OF FURTHER RPTS FROM TWR OR APCH ON THE STATUS OF OUR TFC WE SHOULD HAVE AGGRESSIVELY SOUGHT THIS INFO AND REQUESTED TFC SEPARATION FROM THE CTLING AGENCIES.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.