37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 214113 |
Time | |
Date | 199206 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : bpr |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 10700 msl bound upper : 11400 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute airway : zfw |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 150 |
ASRS Report | 214113 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 1800 flight time type : 180 |
ASRS Report | 213602 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : became reoriented flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
At 11000 ft on the boids arrival into dfw, I suddenly realized that the first officer was going to need speed brakes to slow to an airspeed restriction. I told him to slow it up, that he needed speed brakes, and that I would deploy them for him. I did so as he reached for the autoplt control panel. I thought he was going to reduce speed with the autothrottle position control knob. Instead, he started rolling the pitch control knob upward. The aircraft started climbing (I didn't know why at this stage), and I told him to take it back to 11000 ft. He took it up to about 11300 ft and down to about 10700 before getting back on altitude. I believe we deviated from the STAR altitude primarily because the first officer was new in the airplane, had not flow for a while because his last job was as a flight engineer, and because he had never previously flown transport type aircraft with an autoplt. It also happened because I never dreamed anybody on an assigned altitude, in altitude hold on the autoplt, would attempt to slow the aircraft by rolling the pitch control knob. Therefore, I didn't watch the other pilot closely enough as he reached to the autoplt control panel. I believe that the reasons the aircraft deviated as far as it did, both above and below the assigned altitude were the first officer's unfamiliarity with the aircraft's flying characteristics (he is still getting the feel of it), my ignorance of this at the time (or I would have taken control of the aircraft), and the fact that, from the onset of the deviation, we had the added tasks of deploying the slats and making a 60 degree turn on the STAR. Supplemental information from acn 213602: level at 11000, FMA engaged, slowing from 280 KTS to 250 KTS. I selected a pitch mode vice a speed mode and started to climb. Being new on the aircraft (3 months) the captain decided to help me by deploying the speed brakes. With the wrong mode engaged, the aircraft started a climb and I disengaged the autoplt when an aural warning was heard. Already having selected a QFE for the captain's and first officer's altimeters I attempted to return to 11000 on my altitude and returned to an incorrect altitude. Seeing my mistake, I corrected off the third altimeter and all was normal. Climbed 300 ft and descended 400 ft low during the course of events. North O calls from ATC nor TCASII warnings were heard or observed. The QFE procedure is only done by my company and, as of this time, I am still having problems with the visual differences between the third altimeter and my own. How to correct the situation: keep all 3 altimeters set to the normal pressure altitude. Visual cues are very important.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ACR MLG HAD AN ALT EXCURSION, BOTH HIGH AND LOW.
Narrative: AT 11000 FT ON THE BOIDS ARR INTO DFW, I SUDDENLY REALIZED THAT THE FO WAS GOING TO NEED SPD BRAKES TO SLOW TO AN AIRSPD RESTRICTION. I TOLD HIM TO SLOW IT UP, THAT HE NEEDED SPD BRAKES, AND THAT I WOULD DEPLOY THEM FOR HIM. I DID SO AS HE REACHED FOR THE AUTOPLT CTL PANEL. I THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO REDUCE SPD WITH THE AUTOTHROTTLE POS CTL KNOB. INSTEAD, HE STARTED ROLLING THE PITCH CTL KNOB UPWARD. THE ACFT STARTED CLBING (I DIDN'T KNOW WHY AT THIS STAGE), AND I TOLD HIM TO TAKE IT BACK TO 11000 FT. HE TOOK IT UP TO ABOUT 11300 FT AND DOWN TO ABOUT 10700 BEFORE GETTING BACK ON ALT. I BELIEVE WE DEVIATED FROM THE STAR ALT PRIMARILY BECAUSE THE FO WAS NEW IN THE AIRPLANE, HAD NOT FLOW FOR A WHILE BECAUSE HIS LAST JOB WAS AS A FLT ENGINEER, AND BECAUSE HE HAD NEVER PREVIOUSLY FLOWN TRANSPORT TYPE ACFT WITH AN AUTOPLT. IT ALSO HAPPENED BECAUSE I NEVER DREAMED ANYBODY ON AN ASSIGNED ALT, IN ALT HOLD ON THE AUTOPLT, WOULD ATTEMPT TO SLOW THE ACFT BY ROLLING THE PITCH CTL KNOB. THEREFORE, I DIDN'T WATCH THE OTHER PLT CLOSELY ENOUGH AS HE REACHED TO THE AUTOPLT CTL PANEL. I BELIEVE THAT THE REASONS THE ACFT DEVIATED AS FAR AS IT DID, BOTH ABOVE AND BELOW THE ASSIGNED ALT WERE THE FO'S UNFAMILIARITY WITH THE ACFT'S FLYING CHARACTERISTICS (HE IS STILL GETTING THE FEEL OF IT), MY IGNORANCE OF THIS AT THE TIME (OR I WOULD HAVE TAKEN CTL OF THE ACFT), AND THE FACT THAT, FROM THE ONSET OF THE DEV, WE HAD THE ADDED TASKS OF DEPLOYING THE SLATS AND MAKING A 60 DEG TURN ON THE STAR. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 213602: LEVEL AT 11000, FMA ENGAGED, SLOWING FROM 280 KTS TO 250 KTS. I SELECTED A PITCH MODE VICE A SPD MODE AND STARTED TO CLB. BEING NEW ON THE ACFT (3 MONTHS) THE CAPT DECIDED TO HELP ME BY DEPLOYING THE SPD BRAKES. WITH THE WRONG MODE ENGAGED, THE ACFT STARTED A CLB AND I DISENGAGED THE AUTOPLT WHEN AN AURAL WARNING WAS HEARD. ALREADY HAVING SELECTED A QFE FOR THE CAPT'S AND FO'S ALTIMETERS I ATTEMPTED TO RETURN TO 11000 ON MY ALT AND RETURNED TO AN INCORRECT ALT. SEEING MY MISTAKE, I CORRECTED OFF THE THIRD ALTIMETER AND ALL WAS NORMAL. CLBED 300 FT AND DSNDED 400 FT LOW DURING THE COURSE OF EVENTS. N O CALLS FROM ATC NOR TCASII WARNINGS WERE HEARD OR OBSERVED. THE QFE PROC IS ONLY DONE BY MY COMPANY AND, AS OF THIS TIME, I AM STILL HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THE VISUAL DIFFERENCES BTWN THE THIRD ALTIMETER AND MY OWN. HOW TO CORRECT THE SITUATION: KEEP ALL 3 ALTIMETERS SET TO THE NORMAL PRESSURE ALT. VISUAL CUES ARE VERY IMPORTANT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.