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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 219451 |
Time | |
Date | 199208 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : odf |
State Reference | GA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 9500 msl bound upper : 10000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute airway : ztl |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Small Aircraft, Low Wing, 1 Eng, Retractable Gear |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | VFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 50 flight time total : 10800 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 219451 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude conflict : airborne less severe inflight encounter : weather inflight encounter : vfr in imc non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : far |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa other other : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 5000 vertical : 100 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
Ceiling at about 9500 MSL and a wall of clouds about 10 mi ahead. Called atl center for clearance and received it without having to level or turn to avoid clouds. 'Cleared as filed, maintain 10000'. We were given another atl center frequency. Changed over and was immediately told 'traffic 11 O'clock and 3 mi indicating 10200, VFR small aircraft nwbound.' immediately responded 'say again, we are solid IMC.' controller responded 'traffic 11 to 12 O'clock, 2 mi nwbound, climb to FL230. 'I responded 'negative! We're not climbing through his altitude.' the controller responded 'ok, he is now indicating 10100' (pause) small aircraft, traffic now 12 O'clock less than a mi, an light transport level at 10000, do you have him in sight?' upon hearing that, both of us jammed the yoke forward. The small aircraft pilot responded 'negative, I'm having trouble maintaining VFR.' we stopped the descent at about 9600 and the controller said we were 'clear of traffic, small aircraft is now behind you, climb to FL230.' we acknowledged the climb and the controller apologized for the 'confusion' and explained that he had been about to give the small aircraft an IFR clearance when we checked in on frequency. Nothing was said to us about our altitude deviation. After 20 some yrs of flying, it has been my experience that when a pilot says he/she is having trouble maintaining VFR, about 95% of the time it really means he/she is solid IFR and has been for some time. Unfortunately, the FAA is prone to crucifying pilots that outwardly admit to such mistakes. It would be helpful if ATC types were clued in on this reality and helpfully provided some separation (any would have been much appreciated). 2 months ago, the aircraft owner I work for, acquiesced to my request for a TCASII installation in january, 93. Thank you, thank you boss!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN LTT HAD LTSS WITH AN SMA. BOTH ACFT WERE IN IMC.
Narrative: CEILING AT ABOUT 9500 MSL AND A WALL OF CLOUDS ABOUT 10 MI AHEAD. CALLED ATL CTR FOR CLRNC AND RECEIVED IT WITHOUT HAVING TO LEVEL OR TURN TO AVOID CLOUDS. 'CLRED AS FILED, MAINTAIN 10000'. WE WERE GIVEN ANOTHER ATL CTR FREQ. CHANGED OVER AND WAS IMMEDIATELY TOLD 'TFC 11 O'CLOCK AND 3 MI INDICATING 10200, VFR SMA NWBOUND.' IMMEDIATELY RESPONDED 'SAY AGAIN, WE ARE SOLID IMC.' CTLR RESPONDED 'TFC 11 TO 12 O'CLOCK, 2 MI NWBOUND, CLB TO FL230. 'I RESPONDED 'NEGATIVE! WE'RE NOT CLBING THROUGH HIS ALT.' THE CTLR RESPONDED 'OK, HE IS NOW INDICATING 10100' (PAUSE) SMA, TFC NOW 12 O'CLOCK LESS THAN A MI, AN LTT LEVEL AT 10000, DO YOU HAVE HIM IN SIGHT?' UPON HEARING THAT, BOTH OF US JAMMED THE YOKE FORWARD. THE SMA PLT RESPONDED 'NEGATIVE, I'M HAVING TROUBLE MAINTAINING VFR.' WE STOPPED THE DSCNT AT ABOUT 9600 AND THE CTLR SAID WE WERE 'CLR OF TFC, SMA IS NOW BEHIND YOU, CLB TO FL230.' WE ACKNOWLEDGED THE CLB AND THE CTLR APOLOGIZED FOR THE 'CONFUSION' AND EXPLAINED THAT HE HAD BEEN ABOUT TO GIVE THE SMA AN IFR CLRNC WHEN WE CHKED IN ON FREQ. NOTHING WAS SAID TO US ABOUT OUR ALTDEV. AFTER 20 SOME YRS OF FLYING, IT HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE THAT WHEN A PLT SAYS HE/SHE IS HAVING TROUBLE MAINTAINING VFR, ABOUT 95% OF THE TIME IT REALLY MEANS HE/SHE IS SOLID IFR AND HAS BEEN FOR SOME TIME. UNFORTUNATELY, THE FAA IS PRONE TO CRUCIFYING PLTS THAT OUTWARDLY ADMIT TO SUCH MISTAKES. IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF ATC TYPES WERE CLUED IN ON THIS REALITY AND HELPFULLY PROVIDED SOME SEPARATION (ANY WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH APPRECIATED). 2 MONTHS AGO, THE ACFT OWNER I WORK FOR, ACQUIESCED TO MY REQUEST FOR A TCASII INSTALLATION IN JANUARY, 93. THANK YOU, THANK YOU BOSS!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.