Narrative:

The ATIS in ord reported 31 degrees light drizzle and fog for our departure. We reviewed our new FAA deicing procedures and concluded, with type ii fluid, we would have 6-20 min hold-over time between start of deicing to takeoff. It takes approximately 5 mins to complete deicing, which leaves at best, 15 mins to pushback, taxi out, and takeoff. At large airports this is almost impossible, compounding the problem, we were operating a 'hard wing aircraft' which, if you exceed the hold-over time, has to be visually inspected by qualified ground personnel. Lucky for us, the drizzle stopped so we were able to use the fog column of the type ii fluid hold-over chart and increase our time to 40 mins. From start of deicing to takeoff took 23 mins. The new deicing procedures are too restrictive. Pilots of 'hard wing aircraft' should be able to visually inspect the wings for contamination from inside like other aircraft. How about car wash type deicing at all airports. Too simple! Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: a 'hard wing' aircraft is one of the smaller jet transports that has no leading edge devices. The procedure that the reporting captain objects to is the one that was set up in reaction to the icing accident at lga a yr or so ago. The time to takeoff starts at the beginning of the deicing procedure, not at the conclusion. A 'qualified' person can inspect the leading edge with his hand at the conclusion of the 20 mins of ground time giving another 5 mins until takeoff. At very busy airports, 20 mins, minus the 5 mins for deicing the aircraft, is not enough time to get off of the runway. The reporter would like to be treated like the big boys and be able to check his own wings visually from the inside of the aircraft after a reasonable time interval.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: AN ACR MLG CAPT RPTS ON THE NEW GND DEICING PROCS THAT HIS COMPANY AND THE FAA HAVE AGREED ON FOR 'HARD WING' TRANSPORTS, THOSE WITHOUT LEADING EDGE DEVICES.

Narrative: THE ATIS IN ORD RPTED 31 DEGS LIGHT DRIZZLE AND FOG FOR OUR DEP. WE REVIEWED OUR NEW FAA DEICING PROCS AND CONCLUDED, WITH TYPE II FLUID, WE WOULD HAVE 6-20 MIN HOLD-OVER TIME BTWN START OF DEICING TO TKOF. IT TAKES APPROX 5 MINS TO COMPLETE DEICING, WHICH LEAVES AT BEST, 15 MINS TO PUSHBACK, TAXI OUT, AND TKOF. AT LARGE ARPTS THIS IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE, COMPOUNDING THE PROB, WE WERE OPERATING A 'HARD WING ACFT' WHICH, IF YOU EXCEED THE HOLD-OVER TIME, HAS TO BE VISUALLY INSPECTED BY QUALIFIED GND PERSONNEL. LUCKY FOR US, THE DRIZZLE STOPPED SO WE WERE ABLE TO USE THE FOG COLUMN OF THE TYPE II FLUID HOLD-OVER CHART AND INCREASE OUR TIME TO 40 MINS. FROM START OF DEICING TO TKOF TOOK 23 MINS. THE NEW DEICING PROCS ARE TOO RESTRICTIVE. PLTS OF 'HARD WING ACFT' SHOULD BE ABLE TO VISUALLY INSPECT THE WINGS FOR CONTAMINATION FROM INSIDE LIKE OTHER ACFT. HOW ABOUT CAR WASH TYPE DEICING AT ALL ARPTS. TOO SIMPLE! CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: A 'HARD WING' ACFT IS ONE OF THE SMALLER JET TRANSPORTS THAT HAS NO LEADING EDGE DEVICES. THE PROC THAT THE RPTING CAPT OBJECTS TO IS THE ONE THAT WAS SET UP IN REACTION TO THE ICING ACCIDENT AT LGA A YR OR SO AGO. THE TIME TO TKOF STARTS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE DEICING PROC, NOT AT THE CONCLUSION. A 'QUALIFIED' PERSON CAN INSPECT THE LEADING EDGE WITH HIS HAND AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE 20 MINS OF GND TIME GIVING ANOTHER 5 MINS UNTIL TKOF. AT VERY BUSY ARPTS, 20 MINS, MINUS THE 5 MINS FOR DEICING THE ACFT, IS NOT ENOUGH TIME TO GET OFF OF THE RWY. THE RPTR WOULD LIKE TO BE TREATED LIKE THE BIG BOYS AND BE ABLE TO CHK HIS OWN WINGS VISUALLY FROM THE INSIDE OF THE ACFT AFTER A REASONABLE TIME INTERVAL.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.