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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 237390 |
Time | |
Date | 199303 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sfo |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 1600 msl bound upper : 1600 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : oak tower : dtw |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 237390 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe inflight encounter : weather other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Weather |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
ATIS indicated that simultaneous lda approachs to 28R and ILS approachs to 28L were in progress. We were vectored onto the ILS 28L localizer and heard an air carrier heavy (widebody transport) on the lda. The controller asked both of us if we had the other in sight. Air carrier widebody transport reported the runway but could not acquire us. We were in the clouds and did not have the field nor the traffic. At 1800 ft MSL, we broke out of the cloud base and saw the runway. We momentarily saw the widebody transport but lost it in the ragged cloud layer, which appeared to be at 1600 ft, as we got closer to the airport. When we lost the (widebody transport) I was about to get an RA on the TCASII and was preparing to execute the ILS 28L missed approach. The controller asked both of us if we saw each other and we both said, 'negative.' the controller then told (air carrier) to 'go around, fly heading 280 degrees, and climb to 4000 ft.' the frequency was so busy that we couldn't get a word in edgewise. We switched to tower below 1000 ft, and were cleared to land on 28R at 800 ft. Simultaneous lda and ILS approachs are unsafe. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter was advised that approach chart 11-3A explained the provisions and stipulations for simultaneous approachs with the lda DME runway 28R and ILS runway 28L. It makes it perfectly clear that the aircraft on the lda approach has to make a visual approach after 'eppar' or execute a missed approach by turning right to a 280 degree heading. In addition, the trailing aircraft on either approach has to have the other in sight after departing the 6 mi fix.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FO OF MLG ACR ACFT WAS ALARMED BY THE APCH PROC DURING AN ILS APCH WHEN SIMULTANEOUS APCHS WERE IN PROGRESS WHERE EACH ACFT HAD TO HAVE THE OTHER IN SIGHT DURING THE LAST 6 MI OF THE APCHS.
Narrative: ATIS INDICATED THAT SIMULTANEOUS LDA APCHS TO 28R AND ILS APCHS TO 28L WERE IN PROGRESS. WE WERE VECTORED ONTO THE ILS 28L LOC AND HEARD AN ACR HVY (WDB) ON THE LDA. THE CTLR ASKED BOTH OF US IF WE HAD THE OTHER IN SIGHT. ACR WDB RPTED THE RWY BUT COULD NOT ACQUIRE US. WE WERE IN THE CLOUDS AND DID NOT HAVE THE FIELD NOR THE TFC. AT 1800 FT MSL, WE BROKE OUT OF THE CLOUD BASE AND SAW THE RWY. WE MOMENTARILY SAW THE WDB BUT LOST IT IN THE RAGGED CLOUD LAYER, WHICH APPEARED TO BE AT 1600 FT, AS WE GOT CLOSER TO THE ARPT. WHEN WE LOST THE (WDB) I WAS ABOUT TO GET AN RA ON THE TCASII AND WAS PREPARING TO EXECUTE THE ILS 28L MISSED APCH. THE CTLR ASKED BOTH OF US IF WE SAW EACH OTHER AND WE BOTH SAID, 'NEGATIVE.' THE CTLR THEN TOLD (ACR) TO 'GAR, FLY HDG 280 DEGS, AND CLB TO 4000 FT.' THE FREQ WAS SO BUSY THAT WE COULDN'T GET A WORD IN EDGEWISE. WE SWITCHED TO TWR BELOW 1000 FT, AND WERE CLRED TO LAND ON 28R AT 800 FT. SIMULTANEOUS LDA AND ILS APCHS ARE UNSAFE. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR WAS ADVISED THAT APCH CHART 11-3A EXPLAINED THE PROVISIONS AND STIPULATIONS FOR SIMULTANEOUS APCHS WITH THE LDA DME RWY 28R AND ILS RWY 28L. IT MAKES IT PERFECTLY CLR THAT THE ACFT ON THE LDA APCH HAS TO MAKE A VISUAL APCH AFTER 'EPPAR' OR EXECUTE A MISSED APCH BY TURNING R TO A 280 DEG HDG. IN ADDITION, THE TRAILING ACFT ON EITHER APCH HAS TO HAVE THE OTHER IN SIGHT AFTER DEPARTING THE 6 MI FIX.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.